Post by: Bashiba on December 17, 2007, 01:10:39 AM
Did we really need a half a game talking about the Simpsons.
Whats a plastic ball for?
That question is the equivalent of someone asking Madden during a game what the yellow sticks on the sideline are for, or why the players where helmets.
These guys just suck, how about some real info about what the bowlers are throwing, surface prep, drillings, grip, etc.
Like when they mentioned Chris Warren was throwing conventional and then never said another word. Between Warren and Devany throwing Sarge & Conventional it would seem they had something good to work with and ignored it.
How come we don't get a run down of the top 32 anymore? I guess they are to busy saying Hambone.
A couple weeks ago they had Barnes on with them for a few minutes, and all of sudden it got interesting and we had some real info. Why can't they get a couple pros to do this each week.
It would have been nice to maybe have some sort of explanation as to why the righties couldn't keep pace other than the usual more traffic/breakdown explanation we all understand.
Sorry had to rant, They were just awful yesterday, and seem to be getting worse.
Please ESPN, Please, get some real pros to do the commentary, and free them up of restrictions on mentioning specific companies so they can at least discuss the gear a little.
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on December 17, 2007, 09:26:40 AM
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Go Bucs?
Post by: WSUstroker on December 17, 2007, 09:28:56 AM
I can relate that to golf. For the casual golf fan who might watch for a few minutes between something else, do you think would rather hear about how the dimple pattern on a ProV1 gives an advantage over something else or would they rather hear that Tiger can bomb in 350 yards off the tee?
Casual viewers need something they can understand and relate to. Televised bowling needs the casual viewers.
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Dan Chambers
www.absolutebowling.com
Post by: TheDude on December 17, 2007, 09:30:17 AM
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
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Post by: chaos10187 on December 17, 2007, 09:39:35 AM
He made a relationship to the Simpson's because everyone knows who they are, many people have at least watched the show once, and it was relevant to the telecast. Talking about Jason Couch and how he likes Flanders because hes a lefty, then relating that to the 5 leftys on TV.
As far as the plastic ball, let me say not EVERYONE knows the reasons for a plastic ball. The guy who likes to watch bowling, but only bowls once a month with a house ball might not understand the oil and the effect plastic has when on oil like that.
As far as the "Hambone", it is an original idea in bowling. Let me tell you something guys, the sport of bowling is in DIRE need of something new. It's funny, and there is nothing wrong with it. It might catch on and be used, or it might just fade after awhile, either way, why does it make you so angry? Why do you care? They are trying to make it funny and entertaining for everyone. If you want "Technical/Drilling/Surface Prep/Ball Company Info" Come to this forum. The people here know a lot about it and can be helpful.
Honestly, if you don't like the commentary, hit mute. Your rant is falling on deaf ears at ESPN and they don't give a crap if you don't like it.
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Brian
Northside Pro Shop Staff
Edited on 12/17/2007 10:40 AM
Post by: strikealot on December 17, 2007, 09:40:25 AM
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Post by: Nails on December 17, 2007, 09:41:08 AM
quote:
Rob Stone has got to go. He might be the worst sports commentator in the history of the job.
Did we really need a half a game talking about the Simpsons.
Whats a plastic ball for?
That question is the equivalent of someone asking Madden during a game what the yellow sticks on the sideline are for, or why the players where helmets.
These guys just suck, how about some real info about what the bowlers are throwing, surface prep, drillings, grip, etc.
Like when they mentioned Chris Warren was throwing conventional and then never said another word. Between Warren and Devany throwing Sarge & Conventional it would seem they had something good to work with and ignored it.
How come we don't get a run down of the top 32 anymore? I guess they are to busy saying Hambone.
A couple weeks ago they had Barnes on with them for a few minutes, and all of sudden it got interesting and we had some real info. Why can't they get a couple pros to do this each week.
It would have been nice to maybe have some sort of explanation as to why the righties couldn't keep pace other than the usual more traffic/breakdown explanation we all understand.
Sorry had to rant, They were just awful yesterday, and seem to be getting worse.
Do we really need 5 topics about this every week? People hated Dave Ryan and prayed for anyone else. Now we have Rob Stone. Maybe the grass isn't always greener on the other side after all? I personally think he's an improvement, butt hat's just one opinion. His knowledge is low, but he's energetic and learning. And for the 100th time, the core audience is the average Joe that is happy thinking his inflated THS average gives him a chance at the pro's. Sure, us nuts on BR would love more technical detail, but it's not going to happen. I do think they have time for a run down of other top finishers.
quote:
Please ESPN, Please, get some real pros to do the commentary, and free them up of restrictions on mentioning specific companies so they can at least discuss the gear a little.
Have you written to ESPN? If not, you're wasting your time whining here. You also won't find equipment mentioned for reasons discussed elsewhere.
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Telling it like it is.
Post by: C300_Rye on December 17, 2007, 09:50:09 AM
First off, limit your exagerations, they didn't talk about the simpsons for half a game. It was a frame maybe 2 tops. It was a little funny and good to bring in something that may be familar to the general public that doesn't watch bowling all the time.
Second, we all agree that we want the PBA on television right? If so then we need to understand that ratings is the name of the game and to achieve the desired ratings we must get the general non bowling public to tune in every once in awhile at the very least.
Third, if we agree that we need to get the average public to tune in and they do why do you think we would talk entirely about very technical bowling jargon? The question about plastic is a good question by Stone. We get the chance to explain more about our game when Randy answers the question. Haven't you ever had somebody bowl next to you in open play and ask these "dumb" questions? Most people have, most people just dont have the knowledge and this is an outlet we get to use.
This is the first time I have responded to any of the complaints about the commentary but we must still remember that this is not the worst case scenario, the worst case scenario would be sitting at home on a sunday afternoon and watching little numbers pop up on a computer screen to see a truly gifted bowler when a title, no excitement, no drama, no visual what so ever. So just keep that in mind when you get ready to complain again. I apologize for the long post
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Shop BuddiesProShop.com
Formerly Storm717 and Storm750
Post by: SKIDSNAP on December 17, 2007, 09:51:33 AM
If you can't get the players names right or the pin numbers correct you should be back on regional cable. Or on ESPN 8 "the ocho"
I have written to ESPN BTW.
Post by: Bashiba on December 17, 2007, 10:01:09 AM
And yes I have hit the mute, I do find myself using the DVR to click through the telecast faster then I used to.
I'm sorry I just don't see casual bowling fans watching the show. Go to your local center during league, ask people if they watched. I would bet you only the the well above average league bowlers will tell you that yes they watched.
And why would you hire someone that doesn't know anything about bowling to do the telecast? That makes absolutely no sense. They don't do it with any other sports.
And even the most casual of bowlers proabably have a pretty good idea what plastic balls are for. And probably don't care that Jason Couch who isn't bowling likes Ned Flanders.
Post by: Centers on December 17, 2007, 10:13:43 AM
Post by: dechrist on December 17, 2007, 10:15:09 AM
quote:
And even the most casual of bowlers proabably have a pretty good idea what plastic balls are for. And probably don't care that Jason Couch who isn't bowling likes Ned Flanders.
I had to explain to my wife what I purchase, and why I purchase the equipment. I needed to explain that (1) the Maxim that I bought will hook less than my white dot, which was mostly a drilling difference). I also had to explain that the Black Widow Pearl hooks later and sharper than my Black Widow, and that sometimes I need a different "look" at the pocket.
Casual bowlers are really that, and sometimes just don't know...
Personally, I don't have a problem with Stone. I got very sick of "60 feet to success". This isn't your fathers "Pro Bowlers Tour" on ABC. Like it or not that is the way that it is. For Bowling to survive, new bowlers need to be attracted. If Stone helps, then so be it...
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Dale
My 2007-2008 arsenal is here (http://"http://s211.photobucket.com/albums/bb188/dechrist/Current/").
Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.
-- General George S. Patton
Post by: CHawk15 on December 17, 2007, 10:30:02 AM
Post by: Borincano on December 17, 2007, 10:45:20 AM
Rob Stone is much better then Dave Ryan. At least I do not hear anymore the 60 feet to success. ICK!!
Give him time and he will come around. Randy could be a good coach to him. That is if he wants to be. If he wants to have a good sidekick Randy can put some knowledge in Stone's head but if you want to be the only hotshot on the show and have the other person thrown out then Randy won't help him.
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on December 17, 2007, 11:17:48 AM
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Go Bucs?
Post by: Monster Pike on December 17, 2007, 11:53:07 AM
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Just grip it & rip it!
Post by: BrunsMike on December 17, 2007, 12:18:02 PM
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Mike Zadler
Using the best brand in the nation, BRUNSWICK!!!
Below, my stats from previous seasons:
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Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on December 17, 2007, 12:32:52 PM
quote:
Yeah, get rid of the screaming when all ten didn't go down.
Some of those he sounds like he is showing us is O face or something. Either that or there is a bug or something in the booth like that one famous weatherman on youtube.
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Go Bucs?
Post by: Monster Pike on December 17, 2007, 12:40:22 PM
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Just grip it & rip it!
Post by: mainzer on December 17, 2007, 12:44:05 PM
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Mainzerpower
Post by: Bashiba on December 17, 2007, 01:09:30 PM
Seriously its a niche market and will stay that way so why not try to capture it better. They are never going to attract casual fans in that brutal Sunday afternoon vs football timeslot anyway.
Post by: dpunky on December 17, 2007, 01:10:54 PM
He's showing enthusiasm and wants to get the viewers to get into the match.
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Ken - aka "dpunky" - Certified USBC Level I Coach
Post by: Dan Belcher on December 17, 2007, 02:20:06 PM
quote:That was actually my favorite part of the telecast. That's the kind of basic information a LOT of the viewers don't understand very well.
I do get kinda annoyed when ask questions like "what is a plastic" ball, but what do you expect from a person that comes into the announcing job with no knowledge of bowling.
quote:
He's showing enthusiasm and wants to get the viewers to get into the match.
That's the other thing I really liked.
Go back and listen to Stoner on his first two or three shows, and then listen to him on his past couple of shows. He's already shown a ton of improvement. Other than botching a couple names still -- and quickly correcting himself at least -- he's really learning the sport well. He already knows the pin numbers, so he's doing better than Dave Ryan did in that regard. He's figuring out why the 10 pin stands sometimes, etc. And he seems to be actually enjoying the job, which really carries over into the "getting the viewers into the match" thing. The "hambone" thing is really goofy, but what's wrong with being a little goofy? It's fun.
Post by: Borincano on December 17, 2007, 02:28:51 PM
quote:quote:
HAMBONE is the known 4 bagger
Borincano: I've never heard that expression before. I thought I heard Rob Stone say, "I think I'll call it the hambone". If he made it up, it would be like a novice card player making up names for Texas Hold'em, or the like. What is your information about this?
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The dumbest people I know are
those who know it all. Malcolm Forbes
Post by: Bashiba on December 17, 2007, 05:38:10 PM
As for all of you who are complaining about the announcing and writing to ESPN complaining...
YOU, are the problem with bowling nowadays. You complain about every announcer about how he doesn't know everything about bowling or that he tries to make the telecast "fun". Then you complain about how bowling needs those knowledgable announcers to draw viewers.
Guess what, 99.99% of Americans don't care about specific drillings of the pro's or what the surface is. 99% of the viewers don't care about either of those things. I DON'T CARE ABOUT EITHER OF THOSE THINGS. You really expect bowling's popularity to go up when people watching hear the announcers talking about things they don't care about?
ESPN puts the PBA on tv for the casual bowlers who want to watch people who are the best, not for you people who care about stupid, intricate things like that.
I'm sorry that people like you are not happy with Rob Stone and his announcing, but really, c'mon, just quit freaking complaining and watch the sport you love.
[/quote]
So you took a poll right, you know for sure what 99% of the people who watch bowling want, because thats what you want. So you know for a fact that your feelings on the matter hold true for 99% of the people. Good to know.
While my poll was of a much smaller sampling, I talked to about a ten different people today about the telecast and they all had something negative to say about the commentators, about 8 of them brought it up immediatly.
I never claimed that they knowledgeable announcers to draw viewers, I'm saying that if they had them they might keep viewers.
Its good to know that wanting another avenue to expand my knowledge of the game makes me the problem in bowling.
I guess ignorance is bliss and such.
Edited on 12/17/2007 6:39 PM
Post by: Dan Belcher on December 17, 2007, 07:03:41 PM
quote:THANK YOU! Someone other than me who was willing to say it first! I agree 100%, but I was afraid I'd get lynched by the mob for saying something like that...
Bo and Chris bored me to tears.
Post by: Juggernaut on December 17, 2007, 07:18:53 PM
What we, the initiated, need to remember is, there is a vast, untapped, supply of bowlers out there, IF we can just get them interested enough to bowl one league. Some of them will be just like us, hooked as soon as they pick a ball up on a regular basis.
Until then, let the announcers talk a little trash. Yea, it's irritating to me too at times, but if it will drum up the interest in our sport/game, then I am all for it. I might even suggest getting some young, hip X-games kind of guy in to help with the announcing chores. Someone who is up on the latest terminology, likes to go bowling, likes to compete and win. Someone who could at least see where bowling could be taken as a serious competition and not just some "goofy" game for old, fat guys.
P.S. I don't think he "invented" the term HAMBONE, but he IS the guy who applied it to mean the term for a four bagger. This was discussed on the show where Randy explained the term TURKEY and Stone said that we needed a name for a fourbagger. He later started using the term HAMBONE. Peterson cringed ( yes, so bad you could hear it ) but Stone persisted calling it that. Peterson is still cringing and Stone is still yelling "HAMBONE". Sort of getting used to it, even to the point that it has become a bit humorous to me.
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I'm really tired of the whining, so, JUST SHUT UP AND BOWL!
My Bowl.com member page (http://"http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=2243&suffix=4831")
Post by: mumzie on December 17, 2007, 09:58:11 PM
2. I didn't like Rob Stone at the beginning - but I think he's actually starting to get some enthusiasm for the game. And he can learn - when he shuts up long enough to listen. To the "why the plastic ball" question he asked several times - Randy answered several times. Stone just didn't listen.
3. I don't care WHO replaced Dave Ryan. As long as someone did.
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We Know What Bowlers Want
Post by: REvans284 on December 17, 2007, 10:59:03 PM
I think to a point its good that he doesn't know pretty much anything about bowling because again he asks questions that typical "non" bowlers ask and then Randy gets to answer them so I can see where thats a positive thing and can add viewers to the show.
If you've ever witnessed a no-it-all "hot shot" bowler walk up to a casual bowler who is struggling at the center and then try to help someone who obviously didnt know anything about bowling. Then they start talking all this technical jargon and you just see this puzzled/unammused look on the casual guy's face. It means they really don't care and you went too far over their head past a point of interest (This happens all the time at my center and its funny to set back and watch)..
If that happened on the telecast with 2 announcers that were very knowledgable about the sport and start talking in more "bowling lingo" terms and didn't explain these relatively basic things because it was 2nd nature because they just assumed that everybody already knew. People would flip the channel because they wouldn't stay interested in that stuff.
The PBA knows this and thats why they brought in someone like Rob Stone. He has something to offer the casual bowling public. He may say something funny and keep a viewer interested for a while, and then ask a similar question for randy to answer and wow, they learned something and continue to watch because they become interest.
The only thing I think needs a little work is making sure he gets the names right (which he is improving on, as he corrected himself this week when he messed up Parker's name). If he gets those wrong, and the unknowing viewer watches and hears a name pronounced wrong he wont know the wiser, then when Randy corrects him and they see the announcer doesn't even get a top level "best in the world" pro's name right it may cause a lack of legitimacy or seriousness in the sport.
Other than that I think he's doing a pretty good job for a rookie. I just hope he doesn't run "Drop and give me 10!" into the ground like Dave Ryan did with "60 feet to success!". I think having a trademark quote gets boring, and he should mix it up. It drives me crazy hearing the same thing over and over.
Later,
REvans284
Edited on 12/18/2007 0:01 AM
Post by: Walking E on December 17, 2007, 11:05:49 PM
Shoot, I think Randy is a tool a lot of times, but I would not ask for him to be replaced.
To go a step further, I would also opine that Chris Barnes and/or Norm Duke do not provide commentary very often, but when they do, it is always outstanding and way, WAY more insightful than what Randy provides. I think Duke and Barnes both explain lane transitions and ball reactions much more clearly and understandably than Randy every does (especially for layman bowlers, because they use layman terms); however, since they are not the most exciting announcers around (and because they are still actively touring), Randy is the guy. And I'm totally OK with that, just as I am OK with Stone.
Just my two cents. Or three. ;-)
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Official Member of the BrunsTrackColumStormHammEboRotoBuzzAMF Nation!
Post by: Borincano on December 18, 2007, 06:55:14 AM
You like to insult people by calling them names. You do not know me and wish you didn't. I heard the expression for the first time from Rob Stone when he said that he was going to come up with something new for the four bagger.
Look yourself in the mirror in and you will see what you really are. You really fit in this expression:
The dumbest people I know are those who know it all. Malcolm Forbes
quote:
You're a moron, he did not create the term "hambone", its been around for awhile.quote:
The expression came from Rob Stone after he heard about the three strike turkey term and explained how the turkey came to be. Rob wanted something new for the 4 bagger so he came up with the Hambone. He created the term for a 4 bagger.quote:quote:
HAMBONE is the known 4 bagger
Borincano: I've never heard that expression before. I thought I heard Rob Stone say, "I think I'll call it the hambone". If he made it up, it would be like a novice card player making up names for Texas Hold'em, or the like. What is your information about this?
--------------------
The dumbest people I know are
those who know it all. Malcolm Forbes
As for all of you who are complaining about the announcing and writing to ESPN complaining...
YOU, are the problem with bowling nowadays. You complain about every announcer about how he doesn't know everything about bowling or that he tries to make the telecast "fun". Then you complain about how bowling needs those knowledgable announcers to draw viewers.
Guess what, 99.99% of Americans don't care about specific drillings of the pro's or what the surface is. 99% of the viewers don't care about either of those things. I DON'T CARE ABOUT EITHER OF THOSE THINGS. You really expect bowling's popularity to go up when people watching hear the announcers talking about things they don't care about?
ESPN puts the PBA on tv for the casual bowlers who want to watch people who are the best, not for you people who care about stupid, intricate things like that.
I'm sorry that people like you are not happy with Rob Stone and his announcing, but really, c'mon, just quit freaking complaining and watch the sport you love.
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My Website - http://www.myspace.com/lftybwlr88
Post by: azus on December 18, 2007, 07:00:20 AM
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Cute Bunny! copy bunny into sig to help him achieve world domination
Post by: dechrist on December 18, 2007, 07:10:52 AM
quote:quote:THANK YOU! Someone other than me who was willing to say it first! I agree 100%, but I was afraid I'd get lynched by the mob for saying something like that...
Bo and Chris bored me to tears.
YES! I *liked* Bo and Chris, but they could get really boring too.
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Dale
My 2007-2008 arsenal is here (http://"http://s211.photobucket.com/albums/bb188/dechrist/Current/").
Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.
-- General George S. Patton
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on December 18, 2007, 12:34:35 PM
quote:
What we, the initiated, need to remember is, there is a vast, untapped, supply of bowlers out there, IF we can just get them interested enough to bowl one league. Some of them will be just like us, hooked as soon as they pick a ball up on a regular basis.
This is definitely the only thing lacking. I think there are a lot of potential league bowlers out there untapped.
quote:
Peterson cringed ( yes, so bad you could hear it ) but Stone persisted calling it that. Peterson is still cringing and Stone is still yelling "HAMBONE". Sort of getting used to it, even to the point that it has become a bit humorous to me.
It's funny you mention that... I notice a lot of times Randy is doing damage control, cringing, or just quietly sighing into the mic. I can imagine him doing some double-takes on some of the stuff Stone says. Did I just hear that? I think it is comedy gold but sometimes the Stone-isms can detract from the match. He just needs more of a feel of when to goof off and when to let the match happen.
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Go Bucs?
Edited on 12/18/2007 1:35 PM
Post by: ShermDawg on December 20, 2007, 02:03:04 AM
there is no need to explain what every little thing is about the game and its intricacies...
just say whats happening and how it is...
in basketball they dont explain what reaching in is, they dont explain what getting Tee'd up is...
just say it how it is because the only people that watch bowling really are bowlers... and if there are other people that are going to watch they will learn what the stuff means by watching more or looking it up somewhere...
the show does not need to be babied, and that is what is happening and honestly it seems embarrassing some of the things that are being said for commentary...
yes some of the things that Randy says are funny, some...
Rob Stone... he is a little too over the top and doesn't know what he is saying or talking about half the time.. espn should hire on a hall of famer from bowling of some sort to be the co commentator with randy... these guys that espn's sends in dont know anything about bowling itself and really deface it by mixing up terminology or just not knowing all of it..
trust me i know the guy is trying and what not.. and i enjoy watching the shows and hope to one day be on one...
but the commentating needs to be upgraded and i really hope it happens soon, because the shows have great competitors and they deserve to be talked about in a professional manner... they should have fun but what is going on with the commentating now is pretty bad
i miss the days of Chris Schenkel and Marshall Holman....
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Mason Sherman
Hammer Regional Staff
Vise Regional Staff
"Nothing Hits Like A Hammer."
Edited on 12/20/2007 3:04 AM
Post by: Dan Belcher on December 20, 2007, 06:27:27 AM
quote:Good for you, because I don't. They are two godawful boring commentators in my opinion!
i miss the days of Chris Schenkel and Marshall Holman....
Post by: ShermDawg on December 20, 2007, 08:52:28 PM
think what you will... thats your opinion but really have some respect for two of the greats...
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Mason Sherman
Hammer Regional Staff
Vise Regional Staff
"Nothing Hits Like A Hammer."
Post by: Spartan on December 20, 2007, 09:10:04 PM
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what you say?