Author Topic: WSOB Was this a mistake? (Read 3504 times)

Coolerman · « **on:** July 25, 2009, 03:11:13 AM »

I think the WSOB may come back to bite the PBA in the rear.Has anyone looked at the entries into
the tournaments.Motor City Open-85,Cheetah Championship-TQR 29,Viper Championship TQR 27, C
Chamelon Championship 26,Scorpion Championship-TQR 14,Shark Championship-TQR 15,
PBA World Championship 73.The entries are way down for the TQR squads,Also the women's events
do not even show the TQR entries into the open tournaments.The people that I know ,about 25 men and
15 women are spending all their money trying to win entries into the tournaments by bowling in the
sweepers that Thunderbowl and Taylor Lanes are having.Most have told me the will not bowl unless
they win a sweeper.The idea for the WSOB started in July 2008 when the economy was better.Most have said that they can't afford to bowl because of the cost and the time off work unless they win a spot.The
TQR squads add to the prize fund and if they get less entries the PBA will be losing money.I hope this was not a mistake and the entries pick up.

los2003 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 25, 2009, 11:16:02 AM »

but the pba estimated cost at between 50 and 100thousand to set up , breakdown and film, and travel.. they will be cutting over 50% of that cost down.. so I think the pba as a whole will still come out ahead in the end..

Motiv Girl · « **Reply #2 on:** July 25, 2009, 11:25:17 AM »

I agree about the savings in cost.I'm just basing the success on entries.The Detroit bowling community thought that we were going to get entries by the
bucket full.I even thought we would get more entries from Detroit and Michigan.

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MOTIV GIRL

los2003 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 25, 2009, 11:33:52 AM »

I agree with what you are saying but most of the better bowler around here are not pba members. And most realize the tqr's give an advantage to pba member with them only taking the high amatuer. SO most dont compete. I think there will be a few more enties since its getting closer though..

Juggernaut · « **Reply #4 on:** July 25, 2009, 12:23:19 PM »

I think the W.S.O.B. is one of those ides that look good on paper, sounds good in conversation, but doesn't really work out in the "real" world.

The P.B.A. built its fan base the old fashioned way, by traveling to different cities, bringing the stars of bowling to a bowling center near enough that they could actually go and see them. The W.S.O.B. is centered in a single geographical location that is economically depressed, and one that not many people from oputside are going to travel to, just to see bowling, or compete.

I understand they are saving money on the traveling and setting up, I just hope they aren't setting themselves up for failure. People will come and see their favorites IF THEY ARE CLOSE ENOUGH, but very few will travel 1000 miles or more to watch ANY sport, especially bowling.

Think about it. Why would I travel over 1000 miles from Texas to bowl in a TQR that cost me a couple of hundred to bowl in,just for a CHANCE to get into the tourney, when I can drive an hour, pay less money for an entry, and bowl against talented people in a tournament that I have a much better chance of cashng in and MAKING money? Just to see the pros? No thanks, I'll just watch it on T.V.
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"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

JessN16 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 25, 2009, 08:05:24 PM »

I realize the PBA thought they had to do this to cut costs, but from a fan's perspective, this idea absolutely sucks.

1) More events in Detroit means fewer events elsewhere in the country. Closest event to my house is at least 13 hours away.

2) Tape-delayed finals. The results WILL get out, and I'll be less likely to watch if I already know the results. I'll probably just DVR it and watch if there's a new person I haven't seen bowl, and/or the last few frames of the championship match. And this also means I'll have to visit this site and PBA.com less often if I want to maintain any kind of suspense, thanks to those d-bags in life who get off on being a spoiler.

3) The incessant spin coming from the PBA brass and its PR folks about how this is a great thing for bowling. No, actually, it's not. It's marketing spin attached to a bad idea that is being trotted out to try to maximize margins. I would be a lot more OK with this if they'd been honest about their motives from the beginning.

4) I also question whether Detroit was the best place for this to happen. I know why they went there (number of league bowlers is highest in that area) but I think some place like St. Louis or Cincinnati would have been a better pick. The West Coast guys are already having to drive forever to get to it, so you might as well re-center the tournament between the Midwest and East Coast. Not to mention the concerns over Detroit itself. And if the TQRs fall flat, it will confirm all these suspicions.

And on a separate but related note, in order to be considered a nationally significant sport, the PBA has to -- HAS TO -- come south again. That means back to Texas, somewhere near Atlanta and somewhere in Florida on a yearly basis, even if it costs money to pull it off.

Jess

sirius · « **Reply #6 on:** July 25, 2009, 10:29:35 PM »

yeah Jess they should just keep doing what they were doing. people like you should take up ping pong.

los2003 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 25, 2009, 11:20:47 PM »

people forget detroit has the 2nd or 3rd largest # number of bowlers in the country and that not including the surrounding areas.. Until the straighten up the tqr situation the numbers will always be low for amatuers..

sirius · « **Reply #8 on:** July 26, 2009, 02:25:03 AM »

The thing I read said the TQR is awarding 10 spots in every tournament and that they changed the amateur rule so it is the top 10 make it in the field whether they are amateurs or not. There is no 1-amateur rule anymore.

JessN16 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 26, 2009, 03:46:53 AM »

quote:
yeah Jess they should just keep doing what they were doing. people like you should take up ping pong.

Nah, people like me will just keep expressing our opinion whenever we feel like it. Thanks for your concern.

There's a saying that started, probably, in the military realm but has crossed over to the business realm: Avoid, at all costs, a strategy of "ready, fire, aim." In other words, make sure what you're shooting at before you shoot. Don't just do something different for the hell of it.

I don't begrudge the PBA trying something different, but I've heard from an exempt bowler that the tour ran either in the black last year or right at it. There didn't seem to be any reason to do this unless they thought (a) the economy was going to tank worse in 2010, which doesn't seem likely, or (b) they're trying to take profits.

The problem is that they keep shrinking the tour more and more with each change. At some point, you stop being able to call yourself a nationally relevant sport if you don't make a genuine effort to visit all areas of the country. How do you think regional bowlers in the South and Southwest regions think about their travel costs if they want to bowl their way onto the tour?

When NASCAR really took off, what spurred it? When they started running races across the country and hitting the largest TV markets, whether they sold tickets at the venue or not. I had forgotten that the first year the Brickyard 400 was run, 1994, NASCAR had to add that race to its Winston West schedule as well as the national schedule because they were afraid they wouldn't get 43 cars to show up to qualify otherwise. You've got two boring-a** races in Fontana, Calif., every year now but NASCAR still runs there because they can tap the L.A. ad market.

If the PBA continues to shrink down until the tour is basically a whistle-stop of Upper Midwest states, a few Eastern Seaboard states and one short foray out to Medford, they will have essentially given up on the fastest growing part of the country (the Southeast), thrown their hands up and admitted to being a dying sport.

Jess

Edited on 7/26/2009 3:48 AM

sirius · « **Reply #10 on:** July 26, 2009, 11:49:16 AM »

i'm pretty sure for NASCAR those other parts of the country and related sponsors paid big money to bring them...and i'm pretty sure the PBA would go anywhere that wanted to pay significant dollars to bring them. hell they went to six flags amusement part because they paid for it! maybe if you thought a little harder about the world series of bowling idea, it might actually be a thing that is worth money on a whole, and an area like vegas or southeast or northeast would actually bid for it, want it to come to their area, get the tv exposure of all those shows, get all the travelers and give their area an event they can really sink their teeth into.. then maybe the pba has something valuable. right now, do they? i know i sound like the pba who you say is just trying to spin it positive, but don't we as bowling fans have to? or i guess we could just shoot it down before it even starts.

Pinbuster · « **Reply #11 on:** July 26, 2009, 02:57:28 PM »

It remains to be seen if it was a mistake.

I would think pro-am entries would be low for that many tournaments. Only so many bowlers willing to do it in one area and then an economicaly depressed area as well.

Holding so many tournaments in one venue also might mean a bowler or style of bowler might dominate on that surface.

I'm not real keen on the tape delay of TV shows as well as the PBA National show being delayed 3 months and then contested in another house.

los2003 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 26, 2009, 03:34:35 PM »

nascar is totally different than bowling nascar has and always had the ability to pack a crowd with the sheer exitement, whether it be from crashes or you guy winning. and you're talking 50,000 people there not 100.. the have more revenue through merchandising and everything else

quote:
quote:
yeah Jess they should just keep doing what they were doing. people like you should take up ping pong.

Nah, people like me will just keep expressing our opinion whenever we feel like it. Thanks for your concern.

There's a saying that started, probably, in the military realm but has crossed over to the business realm: Avoid, at all costs, a strategy of "ready, fire, aim." In other words, make sure what you're shooting at before you shoot. Don't just do something different for the hell of it.

I don't begrudge the PBA trying something different, but I've heard from an exempt bowler that the tour ran either in the black last year or right at it. There didn't seem to be any reason to do this unless they thought (a) the economy was going to tank worse in 2010, which doesn't seem likely, or (b) they're trying to take profits.

The problem is that they keep shrinking the tour more and more with each change. At some point, you stop being able to call yourself a nationally relevant sport if you don't make a genuine effort to visit all areas of the country. How do you think regional bowlers in the South and Southwest regions think about their travel costs if they want to bowl their way onto the tour?

When NASCAR really took off, what spurred it? When they started running races across the country and hitting the largest TV markets, whether they sold tickets at the venue or not. I had forgotten that the first year the Brickyard 400 was run, 1994, NASCAR had to add that race to its Winston West schedule as well as the national schedule because they were afraid they wouldn't get 43 cars to show up to qualify otherwise. You've got two boring-a** races in Fontana, Calif., every year now but NASCAR still runs there because they can tap the L.A. ad market.

If the PBA continues to shrink down until the tour is basically a whistle-stop of Upper Midwest states, a few Eastern Seaboard states and one short foray out to Medford, they will have essentially given up on the fastest growing part of the country (the Southeast), thrown their hands up and admitted to being a dying sport.

Jess

Edited on 7/26/2009 3:48 AM

JessN16 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 26, 2009, 05:54:32 PM »

quote:
nascar is totally different than bowling nascar has and always had the ability to pack a crowd with the sheer exitement, whether it be from crashes or you guy winning. and you're talking 50,000 people there not 100.. the have more revenue through merchandising and everything else

My point was that NASCAR didn't always have that, and in fact, it's only been that way since the mid-90s.

If you look at NASCAR prior to about 1992-1993, it was not a national sport. It was a "super-regional" sport popular in the Upper Midwest and Southeast and in pockets of the Atlantic and New England states. If the U.S. had a "national" racing sport prior to that, it was Indy/CART, not NASCAR. What changed was two things, the IRL-CART split in open-wheel cars, and then a stroke of marketing genius on the part of NASCAR regarding (a) the selling of its drivers and (b) the commitment to expand geographically whether the market was ready for it or not.

Until that time, NASCAR only went west to race at the old Riverside course in California, which has since been plowed under. The furthest west track was either Michigan International Speedway or Talladega. All the racing was conducted in a small area of the country.

There was fan interest for televised races, but NASCAR had problems breaking into the LA, Dallas, Phoenix, San Diego, Denver, etc. television markets because there were no venues. That's when they started going to Phoenix and started building tracks (some through its own track arm) in places like Texas, KC, Fontana, etc. The Fontana race is horrible every time it's run, boring, the stands are never full, but that allows them to sell ad buys in the LA market twice a year.

Somebody spent money to make money.

Jess

JessN16 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 26, 2009, 06:11:49 PM »

quote:
i'm pretty sure for NASCAR those other parts of the country and related sponsors paid big money to bring them...and i'm pretty sure the PBA would go anywhere that wanted to pay significant dollars to bring them. hell they went to six flags amusement part because they paid for it! maybe if you thought a little harder about the world series of bowling idea, it might actually be a thing that is worth money on a whole, and an area like vegas or southeast or northeast would actually bid for it, want it to come to their area, get the tv exposure of all those shows, get all the travelers and give their area an event they can really sink their teeth into.. then maybe the pba has something valuable. right now, do they? i know i sound like the pba who you say is just trying to spin it positive, but don't we as bowling fans have to? or i guess we could just shoot it down before it even starts.

Maybe you need to quit telling people to "go play ping pong" or "think a little harder" when you don't agree with them. Throwing around insults when no one has directly provoked you is a sign of a weak mind.

As to your point about NASCAR, I think you'd be surprised to know just how poor the people in that sport were even 20 years ago. The world didn't just open up and decide it wanted to pump hundreds of millions into the NASCAR machine.

Now it's obvious that NASCAR is a different sport than bowling, but that's not the issue. The issue is that NASCAR could have stayed a regional sport and played to its core fan base, but it didn't. It took chances, spent money it didn't have and built its business.

Also, you missed what I said in my first post -- "AS A FAN," this sucks. And it does. I want to actually attend an event from time to time. I'm 17 hours away from the closest site -- and I'm luckier than many. How are you going to build a base if you only visit a 24 percent of the states in the country in a given year?

Jess

Author Topic: WSOB Was this a mistake? (Read 3504 times)

Coolerman

WSOB Was this a mistake?

los2003

Re: WSOB Was this a mistake?

Motiv Girl

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los2003

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Juggernaut

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JessN16

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sirius

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los2003

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sirius

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JessN16

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sirius

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Pinbuster

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los2003

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JessN16

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JessN16

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