Author Topic: WSOB Was this a mistake? (Read 3503 times)

Coolerman · « **on:** July 25, 2009, 03:11:13 AM »

I think the WSOB may come back to bite the PBA in the rear.Has anyone looked at the entries into
the tournaments.Motor City Open-85,Cheetah Championship-TQR 29,Viper Championship TQR 27, C
Chamelon Championship 26,Scorpion Championship-TQR 14,Shark Championship-TQR 15,
PBA World Championship 73.The entries are way down for the TQR squads,Also the women's events
do not even show the TQR entries into the open tournaments.The people that I know ,about 25 men and
15 women are spending all their money trying to win entries into the tournaments by bowling in the
sweepers that Thunderbowl and Taylor Lanes are having.Most have told me the will not bowl unless
they win a sweeper.The idea for the WSOB started in July 2008 when the economy was better.Most have said that they can't afford to bowl because of the cost and the time off work unless they win a spot.The
TQR squads add to the prize fund and if they get less entries the PBA will be losing money.I hope this was not a mistake and the entries pick up.

JessN16 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 26, 2009, 09:20:23 PM »

KW,

Maybe I'm not being clear enough, because a couple of you guys are misunderstanding my comparison of PBA and NASCAR (or nearly any other "major" pro sport).

NASCAR is also a TV-supported venture. That was my point in mentioning the track in Fontana, Calif. That track has NEVER sold out to my knowledge, and had a problem with empty seats even 3-4 years ago when NASCAR was at its most profitable.

The reason NASCAR went to Fontana had nothing to do with ticket sales at the venue, nor did it have anything to do with the racing. The racing at Fontana is consistently some of the worst racing all year.

But what going to Fontana did was allow NASCAR's marketing people to go to the LA television market and say, "We care enough about you guys to bring two races here each year. Some of your local residents will be there and your local media will cover the event. Now how about buying some commercials?"

The only person who benefits from high gate sales in NASCAR is the track owner, much like the bowling center management benefits from the pro-ams and the telecast audience gate. The drivers in NASCAR don't get any direct benefit from the gate. It might affect the purse for that race, but when you're winning $200,000 per race, that's peanuts anyway compared to the $30 million it takes to run a team.

The point is, you DO NOT grow the sport by contracting it. If I'm the PBA and I'm trying to stimulate ad buys in, say, Miami, how do you convince Miami advertisers the show is a good buy when you aren't coming any further south than Columbus, Ohio? The perception is that the tour is something people "up north" do.

It appears to me the tour bosses have gone from trying to grow the sport to trying to protect what they have left, and that kind of management strategy does nothing but put a band-aid on a major gash.

I'm *told* the tour ran in the black last year, and the PBA says its TV ratings are up. This is the perfect time to grab ground rather than protect it (especially since the cost of transportation and production will never be lower than they are right now if the economy comes back).

Jess

Bill Thomas · « **Reply #17 on:** July 30, 2009, 07:09:39 AM »

A NASCAR race can get 10s of thousands of paid fannies in the seats. Bowling, if in an arena can get maybe a few thousand. That's a big difference in gate $. Besides at many PBA events I have gone to, half the crowd is family/friends of the bowlers or people who sneak in the side doors without paying.

JessN16 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 30, 2009, 01:01:16 PM »

quote:
A NASCAR race can get 10s of thousands of paid fannies in the seats. Bowling, if in an arena can get maybe a few thousand. That's a big difference in gate $. Besides at many PBA events I have gone to, half the crowd is family/friends of the bowlers or people who sneak in the side doors without paying.

Guys, not to be a smart-aleck, but is anyone actually reading my posts about NASCAR before commenting on them? TICKET SALES ARE PRACTICALLY IRRELEVANT IN NASCAR. The only person who cares about ticket sales in NASCAR is the individual track owner. It's about getting the product into as many as the top 50 television markets in the country as possible to jack up ad buy rates, thus attract larger sponsors. Ask someone in the business how much difference being in one of the top market tiers is in regards to ad sales and sponsorships.

You guys must think I don't understand the difference between a 100,000-seat racetrack and a 200-seat bowling center. That's not the issue here.

Jess

Andyman3333 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 30, 2009, 02:11:06 PM »

Entries for any bowling tournament (even last year) are low until the day of the tournament. Don't know why, but if you kept an eye on entries when events were traveling, they were low until tournament day also. Don't think that is the make it or break statistic of the WSOB.

The PBA is trying to broaden its audience by doing some different things. Apparently last year was the first profit making year for the PBA and that was the year they went all crazy with the formats and plastic ball stuff and what not. Seems like crazy might be the right path for the PBA right now. Once its up on its feet again, I could see it going back to a traditional 20 week tour with a WSOB to culminate the season or kick off the season. This is an experiement. Let it run its course and then pass judgement.
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PROFILE
Medium Revs
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Arsenal: Virtual Gravity, Uprising, Cell Pearl, Swarm, Momentum, Twisted Fury, Thunderstruck Pearl

Krakken · « **Reply #20 on:** July 30, 2009, 03:18:09 PM »

quote:
Personally if your not a PBA member, or plan to bowl this event than why do you even care where it's held. It doesn't change your life, and it's really of no concern to you when and where the finals are held or shown on tv.

Your negative feedback had no direct impact on the event, so why do you even bother to criticize an event that you are not even a member of?

Because that is what internet message boards are for.

Also 99% of the people on here are fans of the PBA, and seeing them do something to hurt the game tends to make us angry and we want to share our opinion.

Also, I know of at least one senior USBC Official that does look at these boards to see feedback on things. You don't thing someone at the PBA does the same thing?

It is like taking a poll of your customers without having to pay someone to take the poll.
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ROTO GRIP, There is NO Substitute
Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes

michelle · « **Reply #21 on:** July 30, 2009, 03:21:52 PM »

quote:
Personally if your not a PBA member, or plan to bowl this event than why do you even care where it's held. It doesn't change your life, and it's really of no concern to you when and where the finals are held or shown on tv.

Sadly, that is the sort of attitude that will turn people OFF of the PBA. There are SOME people who might have been willing to travel to either watch or to bowl an event. When you shut out what could have been better marketed to a fanbase, then you do a disservice to your sport.

quote:
Your negative feedback had no direct impact on the event, so why do you even bother to criticize an event that you are not even a member of?

So fans are not entitled to criticize the governing body of an organization that is representative of the very sport for which they are a fan? Talk about short-sighted.

Growth of a sport requires grass-roots efforts. And in the case of the PBA, there is much care and feeding that needs to be done to re-energize the very people sponsors are looking for before signing the advertising checks. No sponsors...no Tour. The PBA has the means to reverse the circling of the bowl that has been going on for many years, but continues to stumble over itself at what seems to be every step of the way...

JessN16 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 30, 2009, 05:55:14 PM »

quote:
Personally if your not a PBA member, or plan to bowl this event than why do you even care where it's held. It doesn't change your life, and it's really of no concern to you when and where the finals are held or shown on tv.

Your negative feedback had no direct impact on the event, so why do you even bother to criticize an event that you are not even a member of?

Again, not to be smart-alecky, but no one has to ask permission before speaking up on a topic.

Why do I care where it's held? It's not so much where *IT* is held, it's that if you hold an *IT*, you don't hold five or six tournaments in other cities that are within reach of me so that I can come out and participate as a spectator or in the pro-ams. If the PBA is only going to hold national events in the upper Midwest, East Coast and a couple of outliers out on the West Coast, why even have the Southwest and South regions? They're effectively sending a message to the South and Southwest guys that says, "Thanks for your participation on the regional circuit, thanks for your dues, and oh by the way, if you ever want to play with the big boys, you'll have to do it on our turf because we're not coming to you." (hence the whole NASCAR discussion)

Why criticize an event? Because if someone doesn't raise their hand and say "I don't like it," the PBA might do it again. If the PBA wants to make decisions in a vacuum without regards to what fans/amateurs want, that's fine -- as long as they get off TV, stop trying to get me to watch, stop trying to get me to spend money on fan gear, Xtra Frame and all the other goodies. Once the PBA holds itself out to fans, it is also accountable to the fans.

Jess

rvmark · « **Reply #23 on:** July 30, 2009, 07:09:38 PM »

quote:
Personally if your not a PBA member, or plan to bowl this event than why do you even care where it's held. It doesn't change your life, and it's really of no concern to you when and where the finals are held or shown on tv.

Your negative feedback had no direct impact on the event, so why do you even bother to criticize an event that you are not even a member of?

The comments I have seen have been from fans of the PBA. Just because they are not PBA members or going to bowl in the WSOB does not mean that they should not express their opinion. The jury is still out and time will tell as to whether or not it will be as successful as the PBA hopes. Open minded discussion is a good thing. Keep up the insightful discussion the PBA does need to hear from the fan base.

Mark

JessN16 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 10, 2009, 11:35:46 PM »

quote:
So far it's been a 1st class run event. It's a step in the right direction and every single member of the PBAs team is working very hard to do something great here at the WSOB.

This is going to sound like belaboring the point, but the measure of whether this is a success or not won't have very much to do with what the bowlers think of it. It will have to do with how it's received on television and by the fans. At the regional level or the senior level, what the bowlers think is of high importance. When you're talking about the exempt tour, however, you're talking about something that exists as a spectator event -- otherwise, it wouldn't matter whether it was on TV or not. And in spectator sports (particularly those with a national television contract like ESPN), the measure of success is weighted about 90-10 toward the fan experience.

Jess

JessN16 · « **Reply #25 on:** August 11, 2009, 01:24:06 AM »

quote:
JessN why don't you go and find something else to do with your time than bowl. You are a cancer that needs to be removed.

You know little to nothing about whats going on here with the World Series, but you seem to think your an expert.

Why don't you take your negativity and turn it into something productive and positive for once.

If you don't like this whole world series idea, than don't watch the damn thing and don't follow it and worry about it. It will be just fine without you.

Edited on 8/11/2009 0:31 AM

Edited on 8/11/2009 0:34 AM

Every time you post something like this, you just guarantee that I'm going to continue to speak on the subject. If you want me not to post, you're going about it the wrong way.

To answer a few of the questions you brought up here: I'll speak about any da*n thing I want to. What you call "negativity," I call "objectivity." You're on here carrying the public relations water bucket for the PBA, and that's your choice. But not everything the PBA does is all sweetness and roses.

As I said about two pages ago (and will now restate at least once or twice just because it bothers you), the PBA cannot make decisions in a vacuum. If it holds itself out to me as a fan, it makes itself accountable to me as a fan. Do you see me having this discussion in a thread about regional bowling? No. Because the regional program is off television and is done for the benefit of the bowlers and basically no one else.

But the PBA is televised, it has sponsors and it wants me to support those sponsors at the cost of my own paycheck. So once that becomes the case, I have the right to literally gripe about everything down to the colors in the logo if I so choose. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. That's the way it is.

I'm not here to stir up trouble but I'll be da*ned if I let someone tell me what to say or think. And I'm a "cancer that needs to be removed?" Who the hell do you think you are, exactly?

You're right about one thing -- I don't know how things are going in the WSOB. Why? BECAUSE IT'S IN FRIGGIN' DETROIT. An entire half-year's worth of bowling in one place with the results tape-delayed just so the tour (which ran a profit last year, if one of the current exempts is to be believed) could maximize its profits. I'm glad you think this is a good thing for the tour, but I happen to have a different opinion. And I will post it over and over and over and over and over again if I so choose.

Jess

Coolerman · « **Reply #26 on:** August 25, 2009, 11:56:44 AM »

Now that the experiment known as ,The WSOB is a nearing it's run.Let's ask some of the PBA exempt
members that frequent this site, what they think of this experiment.I'm sure we will all be amazed
to hear what Jeff Carter thinks about the time spent at the same houses and city for over 6 weeks.I think he would answer us if we asked.
So Jeff,What is your opinion on The WSOB

TwoFourEightNineNine · « **Reply #27 on:** August 27, 2009, 12:11:02 PM »

if you don't like it, bowl the other tour.
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Jeremy

Author Topic: WSOB Was this a mistake? (Read 3503 times)

Coolerman

WSOB Was this a mistake?

JessN16

Re: WSOB Was this a mistake?

Bill Thomas

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JessN16

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Andyman3333

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Krakken

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michelle

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JessN16

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rvmark

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JessN16

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JessN16

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Coolerman

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TwoFourEightNineNine

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