BallReviews

Equipment Boards => Radical => Topic started by: newguy on February 19, 2013, 02:01:51 PM

Title: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: newguy on February 19, 2013, 02:01:51 PM
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=Radical_Bowling_Technologies

Take a look, this is great stuff. This is only a part of what makes us RADICAL!!!!
The Asymetrical is for the Reax and the Symmetrical is for the Yeti.
Phil
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: BrunsNick on February 19, 2013, 04:10:34 PM
Pretty cool stuff for the truly tech driven bowler!
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: bowlingaddiction on February 19, 2013, 05:55:04 PM
Phil,

I just got my Torrid Elite earlier today. I was thinking of using Mo's Original Low Track Dual Angle Method from Bowling Chat. Would it more appropriate to use the symmetrical drilling sheet for the new stuff?

Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: newguy on February 19, 2013, 05:57:18 PM
Torrid has not proven out on the Yeti drillings.
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: bowlingaddiction on February 19, 2013, 06:36:55 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: Rightycomplex on February 19, 2013, 09:25:17 PM
Wanted to get a DV8 Diva, but after looking at the Yeti, i may have to reconsider. Congrats Phil on all your success. You have something special going on.
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: Nails on February 20, 2013, 07:07:55 AM
Looks like fairly standard drilling sheets.  Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: tekneek on February 20, 2013, 07:16:52 AM
very similar to what has been on Mo's website, I always use gradient balance holes, I'm waiting for the Mo-tion hole study to be finished and published for use !!!
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: J_Mac on February 20, 2013, 07:21:00 AM
Looks like fairly standard drilling sheets.  Am I missing something?
Page 3 of the symmetric layout sheet has the Mo-tion hole layout on it... that's the new layout that increases length and backend on balls with radially symmetric cores.

An example of a non-radially symmetric core is found in the Torrid Elite...
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: tekneek on February 20, 2013, 07:36:49 AM
I printed the doc's out but didn't have the chance to look at them yesterday.
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: tekneek on February 20, 2013, 07:47:25 AM
I'm still wondering about the Mo-tion hole, my info told me non radial cores won't work with this drilling, tried it on an Elite and it was less than desirable, this was done before I guess the study was complete.
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: Nails on February 20, 2013, 09:44:24 AM
I was having issues with the second link yesterday.  It said that there was 4 pages, but it seemed to stop loading after 2.  I'll give it another shot in a minute.
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: Rightycomplex on February 20, 2013, 11:22:01 AM
I'm still wondering about the Mo-tion hole, my info told me non radial cores won't work with this drilling, tried it on an Elite and it was less than desirable, this was done before I guess the study was complete.

The layout and hole will work in any ball if matched up to the bowler's stats. Ive done it in a RotoGrip Shatter. I like the motion through the pins, however, the reaction takes getting used to. The key that people have to remember is the hole make the ball bleed energy slower so it pushes a bit further than it  normally would without the hole. The backend reaction is sick, but again, takes getting used to.
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: Impending Doom on February 20, 2013, 11:40:39 AM
It seems to me that it would either be like the anti mb stuff that came out a while ago (Matrix Dominator had the MB on the other side of the pin). You're just creating a void at the bottom of the ball, which would raise the RG values while maintaining the diff. Hence, more push and more backend. Looking at the weight block on the Yeti, that is going to create a HUGE difference.

Just my ramblings. I think I am on the right track, but I could be totally wrong.

Oh yeah, this would be a great video to see.
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: bowlingaddiction on February 20, 2013, 11:53:56 AM
Here is a link to the video posted on Mo's Facebook page https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I05-Sqe-MCo&feature=player_embedded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I05-Sqe-MCo&feature=player_embedded)
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: nocarey on February 20, 2013, 12:12:06 PM
Thought I'd try this on an ancient pin up piece in the basement. . .

Popped an extra hole(1-1/8" x 3" deep)in an old RevolutionIST ProActive 10 inches from the pin center(watch the above video for instructions).  Increased the flare to a ridiculously large amount.  Pic link below.  Can't wait to try this Mo-tion drill on some new stuff.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m88/nocarey/bowling2013/flarea_zps06cf0f42.jpg (http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m88/nocarey/bowling2013/flarea_zps06cf0f42.jpg)

edit 2/23/2013, corrected post and added pic link
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: kotm on February 22, 2013, 08:39:17 AM
Thought I'd try this on an ancient pin up piece in the basement. . .

Popped an extra hole(1-1/8" x 3" deep)in an old RevolutionIST ProActive 10 inches from the thumb(watch the above video for instructions).  Increased the flare to a ridiculously large amount.  Pic will be uploaded later.  Can't wait to try this Mo-tion drill on some new stuff.

A safer thing to do is place the hole 10" from the locator pin on a line from the center of your thumb hole through the pin (per the video...)

A hole 10" from your thumb-hole on that line may make unwanted noises down-lane. 
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: J_Mac on February 22, 2013, 09:33:46 AM
I'm still wondering about the Mo-tion hole, my info told me non radial cores won't work with this drilling, tried it on an Elite and it was less than desirable, this was done before I guess the study was complete.

The layout and hole will work in any ball if matched up to the bowler's stats. Ive done it in a RotoGrip Shatter. I like the motion through the pins, however, the reaction takes getting used to. The key that people have to remember is the hole make the ball bleed energy slower so it pushes a bit further than it  normally would without the hole. The backend reaction is sick, but again, takes getting used to.

It does not work on every ball.  PurduePaul has already noted that this technique should only be used on radially symmetric cores. 

If it looks like it wasn't turned on a lathe, don't use this layout...
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: newguy on February 23, 2013, 11:04:31 AM
J Mac
Maybe you could explain what Radially Symmetric means so the readers  can better understand why the Motion drilling doesn't work on all cores.
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: nocarey on February 23, 2013, 12:05:51 PM
Thought I'd try this on an ancient pin up piece in the basement. . .

Popped an extra hole(1-1/8" x 3" deep)in an old RevolutionIST ProActive 10 inches from the thumb(watch the above video for instructions).  Increased the flare to a ridiculously large amount.  Pic will be uploaded later.  Can't wait to try this Mo-tion drill on some new stuff.

A safer thing to do is place the hole 10" from the locator pin on a line from the center of your thumb hole through the pin (per the video...)

A hole 10" from your thumb-hole on that line may make unwanted noises down-lane. 



yes, in my excitement I forgot to mention that I started at the thumb to the pin then 10" from there. Corrected my above post and added a link to a pic of the hole and the tremendous flare
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: dougb on February 23, 2013, 08:43:33 PM
Wow.  The flare rings in that pic reminds me of my old Roto-Grip SD-73. 

I'd also like to know what radially symmetric means as I'd love to try this on something... maybe a Brunswick Massive Damage?
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: Rightycomplex on February 23, 2013, 09:53:58 PM
Lol! I think JMac meant to say Radical Symmetric cores. However, that information is false. I have seen it in other balls (the Voodoo Layout was floating around). And I have done the "MO"tion hole in a Rotogrip Shatter, with success I might add. I will say that maybe the effects of the "MO"tion hole are magnified more so in a Radical Symmetric than any other symmetric.
Kudos to Phil and Mo for designing, testing and making this process somewhat generic. I had heard that a years worth of testing went into this and it is an astonishing achievement.
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: J_Mac on February 24, 2013, 01:32:07 AM
Lol! I think JMac meant to say Radical Symmetric cores. However, that information is false. I have seen it in other balls (the Voodoo Layout was floating around). And I have done the "MO"tion hole in a Rotogrip Shatter, with success I might add. I will say that maybe the effects of the "MO"tion hole are magnified more so in a Radical Symmetric than any other symmetric.
Kudos to Phil and Mo for designing, testing and making this process somewhat generic. I had heard that a years worth of testing went into this and it is an astonishing achievement.

No... I mean radially symmetric cores... It's already been mentioned that the Torrid Elite doesn't have the correct core design.

Perhaps a better term to use would be rotational symmetry since it eliminates the confusion between "radial" and "Radical"
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: J_Mac on February 24, 2013, 03:05:28 AM
J Mac
Maybe you could explain what Radially Symmetric means so the readers  can better understand why the Motion drilling doesn't work on all cores.

Phil, I can speculate on why this layout won't work on all core designs, but I don't have access to enough technical details to make an educated guess or a factual statement.

I'm merely echoing the information given by respected individuals associated with the research behind this new information such as Paul Ridenour (purduepaul) and Steve Freshour (mathistruth) in an effort to keep misinformation in check.
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: BackToBasics on February 24, 2013, 10:30:57 AM
Lol! I think JMac meant to say Radical Symmetric cores. However, that information is false. I have seen it in other balls (the Voodoo Layout was floating around). And I have done the "MO"tion hole in a Rotogrip Shatter, with success I might add. I will say that maybe the effects of the "MO"tion hole are magnified more so in a Radical Symmetric than any other symmetric.
Kudos to Phil and Mo for designing, testing and making this process somewhat generic. I had heard that a years worth of testing went into this and it is an astonishing achievement.

Of course the "MO"tion hole will work with symmetrics but it's not much more than other flare increasing holes or the old 9" hole.  It greatly enhances the overall diff of the ball, but it DOES not greatly increase the intermediate diff.  Thus it's not really a "MO"tion hole. 

On Radially symmetrical balls, the "MO"tion hole significantly increases the intermediate diff (just like going pin above or below fingers changes it significantly).   The hole basically turns a symmetrical into an extremely strong asymmetrical.  That's why it only works on radially symmetric cores.
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: proform on February 24, 2013, 12:22:04 PM
J Mac
Maybe you could explain what Radially Symmetric means so the readers  can better understand why the Motion drilling doesn't work on all cores.
----------------
Well could JMAC and/or BACKTOBASICS explain in generic terms what a "Radially Symetric" Ball is?
Also an example of a current Symetric Weight Block that would not be "Radially Symetric"?
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: J_Mac on February 24, 2013, 12:31:53 PM
J Mac
Maybe you could explain what Radially Symmetric means so the readers  can better understand why the Motion drilling doesn't work on all cores.
----------------
Well could JMAC and/or BACKTOBASICS explain in generic terms what a "Radially Symetric" Ball is?
Also an example of a current Symetric Weight Block that would not be "Radially Symetric"?

The Torrid Elite isn't radially symmetric... as previously mentioned in this thread.
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: dougb on February 24, 2013, 01:37:44 PM
J Mac
Maybe you could explain what Radially Symmetric means so the readers  can better understand why the Motion drilling doesn't work on all cores.
----------------
Well could JMAC and/or BACKTOBASICS explain in generic terms what a "Radially Symetric" Ball is?
Also an example of a current Symetric Weight Block that would not be "Radially Symetric"?

+1
Title: Re: Drill sheets for the new stuff
Post by: nocarey on February 24, 2013, 05:11:08 PM
I'm still wondering about the Mo-tion hole, my info told me non radial cores won't work with this drilling, tried it on an Elite and it was less than desirable, this was done before I guess the study was complete.

The layout and hole will work in any ball if matched up to the bowler's stats. Ive done it in a RotoGrip Shatter. I like the motion through the pins, however, the reaction takes getting used to. The key that people have to remember is the hole make the ball bleed energy slower so it pushes a bit further than it  normally would without the hole. The backend reaction is sick, but again, takes getting used to.

It does not work on every ball.  PurduePaul has already noted that this technique should only be used on radially symmetric cores. 

If it looks like it wasn't turned on a lathe, don't use this layout...

Bingo!
J_Mac is right on the money.
If it looks like it wasn't turned on a lathe, don't use this layout...
If it looks like it wasn't turned on a lathe, don't use this layout...
If it looks like it wasn't turned on a lathe, don't use this layout...