BallReviews

Equipment Boards => Radical => Topic started by: DrBwlr15 on December 15, 2013, 03:24:34 PM

Title: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: DrBwlr15 on December 15, 2013, 03:24:34 PM
After reading a bunch of reviews and looking at the Radical website I've noticed that Radical names their cores but not their cover stocks.. I'm looking at getting either the Yeti or the Yeti Untamed and I wanted to see the difference in cover stocks  (other than the OOB finish) but all Radical says is "new resin formula"... Does Radical NOT give much info on their cover stocks?
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: bonez44s on December 15, 2013, 05:46:57 PM
Not sure  why they don't name  coverstocks but after throwing the untamed for about three weeks I can tell ya it's one of the better balls for TPH I have drilled in a long time.
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: jhutch769 on December 15, 2013, 10:08:51 PM
What is a TPH?
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: bonez44s on December 16, 2013, 03:25:46 PM
Woops I mean THS  Typ House Shot  Sorry about that
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: jhutch769 on December 16, 2013, 09:56:01 PM
Ah, makes sense  :)
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: Strider on December 16, 2013, 10:45:12 PM
I can't tell you anything about the Untamed or their covers in general, but the cover on the Yeti is super clean through the front part of the lane.  If you are speed dominant, the Yeti probably wouldn't be a great choice unless you want something for dryer conditions.
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: newguy on December 18, 2013, 12:54:10 PM
One of the reasons we do not name the core or give it a value is because of the misconception created by naming or numbering the cover. An example is lets say we decided to rate our covers on a scale of 10 to 100 with 100 being the strongest. So the first ball we build has a cover of say 75 and a medium  rg and medium  diff core. So the value of the cover is presented and 75 is a fairly high number and the ball is fairly aggressive because the core numbers allow the aggressive cover to store energy and hook down the lane. So we build another ball and use a 70 value cover and a very strong core, a low Rg, and  high diff how does this ball perform, well it could be stronger than the first ball, but the perception is that is maybe weaker because the cover value is weaker.
My point is we do not rate a cover or core strength, we do however look at the whole system. A weak core with a strong cover will at times perform the same a as strong cover with a  weaker core. I hope this helps and makes sense.
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: DrBwlr15 on December 18, 2013, 07:28:13 PM
That does make sense but I mostly am concerned with the name of the cover over the strength and here's why.. Suppose I go out and build an arsenal with all Radical equipment.. I buy a Yeti and a Yeti Untamed.. Both have the same core but slightly different covers.. Say in 3 months, another Yeti ball is made.. Are you going to make a brand new cover and keep the same core? Or tweak the core and put an existing cover like the original REAX on the new ball and call it the Sasaquatch?  Same for the REAX balls, you got a pearl and a solid but then comes the REAX2, different core, (similar to the Yeti) and a new formulization on the cover.. The problem I see is how are the consumers going to build an arsenal around covers they have no idea what they are other than whether its a solid, hybrid, or pearl? We as consumers see pictures of the core but I would think knowing what kind of cover is on the ball compared to other balls would be extremely vital when building an arsenal.. Forgive my ignorance if I'm way off base here, but I'm just learning all this technical stuff and trying to wrap my head around it all...
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: Track_Fanatic on December 18, 2013, 09:11:00 PM
You're not way off base.  I understand what you mean.  But knowing somewhat of Phil's Philosophy, he isn't going to put a ball out there that does not fit within their product line.  Every ball in their line up has a purpose.  I am not sure if you know that Newguy(Phil) is the one who started Radical and he's been in the industry beginning with the 1st company he created that was Track back in I think 1988 then he started Dynothane after C300 bought Track then C300 bought Dynothane and Phil went back to Track and then created 900 Global after C300 was bought out by Ebi before starting Radical.  He creates covers that matches the cores and uses the same cores but changes densities.  I've purchase all of his different product lines and have had good success with all of them.   
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: Impending Doom on December 18, 2013, 09:20:04 PM
So Phil, who came up with that idea at 900 Global, if you approve of it?
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: newguy on December 19, 2013, 08:49:45 AM
Not me
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: spmcgivern on December 19, 2013, 09:00:26 AM
It seems most companies don't really rate their cores or covers, just the overall ball.  Look at Storm with R2S.  Even though the name has been the same over the years, there are still slight variances between some balls.  There isn't a number assigned to it to show strength, but Storm does put the ball in a "Line" to market it for its purpose.  As long as the company markets the ball for its intended purpose, they can call it whatever they want.

The only companies I know numbering anything is 900 Global/AMF with their covers and Track with their cores.
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: newguy on December 19, 2013, 10:47:24 AM
I guess the question is to you guys the consumers.
How many COVERSTOCKS do you think a company actually has access to?
I think this has the makings for a great thread.
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: spmcgivern on December 19, 2013, 11:50:13 AM
Well, here is how I figure it works.  A ball company will have a base coverstock they have and they would tweak said coverstock to get the different variations (solid, hybrid, pearl).  For a company like yours Phil, you might have 2 coverstocks you "order" and then in house you may make alterations to achieve the performance you desire.

A company like Storm may have more coverstocks in house, but I assume it isn't a lot.  If they decide to bring back lets say R3X from the Invasion then they would just order that coverstock.  I doubt they have it in house at all times, but the formulation would be available to them, as well as many others.
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: newguy on December 19, 2013, 12:26:59 PM
Pretty close
We actually use all the base resins Brunswick has. A small mfg company may have only 2.
we can only tweak them so far than they have cracking and hardening issues. We do have an abundance of additives, some projection some friction.
We can alter the shape the back end or the mid lane reaction by the amount and type of additive.
We will be posting an article about this on our web site shortly.
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: Rightycomplex on December 19, 2013, 01:41:09 PM
Can I honestly say that this has been the best and most informative topic that BR has had in many many moons?
I believe I would like to see this go as far as it can. I'm just mad I can think of any questions to ask to keep it going.
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: DrBwlr15 on December 19, 2013, 02:55:59 PM
As a consumer, I gravitate towards Storm because of this

Storm currently has the following

ERG Solid (Zero Gravity)
ERG Pearl (Byte, Lucid)
NRG Solid (Sync, Marvel S)
R2S Solid (IQ Tour)
R2S Hybrid (IQ Fusion, Reign On, Crossroad, Hyroad, Lights out, and Frantic)
R2S Pearl (IQ Tour Pearl, Hyroad Pearl, Freakin Frantic)
R2X Pearl (Marvel Pearl)
PFT Solid (Reign of Power)
U3S Hybrid Urethane (Super Natural)
U2S Pearl Urethane (Natural Pearl)
U1S Hybrid Urethane (Polar Ice)
U1S Pearl Urethane ( Mix)
Reactor Pearl  (Tropical Breeze)
Polyester Pearl (Black Ice)

Cores

Shape Lock LD  (Zero Gravity)
G2+  (Byte)
G2   (Sync)
M.A.D  (Lucid)
C3 Centripetal Control (IG Tour Fusion, IQ Tour Pearl, IQ Tour)
Centripetal  (Marvel S, Marvel Pearl)
Inverted Fe3 Tech (Crossroad)
Inverted Fe2 Tech (Hyroad Pearl, Hyroad)
C.A.M  (Reign On, Reign of Power)
N.O.S (Freakin Frantic, Frantic)
Turbine  (Super Natural, Lights Out, Natural Pearl)
Camber  (Tropical Breeze)
Traditional 3 Peace  (Polar Ice, Black Ice, Mix)

14 different covers  with 13 different cores in use right now.. 
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: newguy on December 19, 2013, 03:04:10 PM
Are there really 14 different covers? Or 14 different names of covers, granted they may be different chemically but can you actually see a significant difference in performance if they all had the same core in them?
No disrespect meant to Storm just getting a consumers take on it.
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: newguy on December 19, 2013, 03:07:25 PM
check out our new rating tool
Radical Bowling Technologies

Check out our new ball comparison tool. http://radicalbowling.com/balls/compare
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: SVstar34 on December 19, 2013, 03:15:42 PM
Are there really 14 different covers? Or 14 different names of covers, granted they may be different chemically but can you actually see a significant difference in performance if they all had the same core in them?
No disrespect meant to Storm just getting a consumers take on it.

I'm right there with you, I only see about 5 different covers for Storm. They just use so many different variations
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: newguy on December 19, 2013, 05:52:59 PM
Read the news letter
"We got you covered"
It's under the news tab on our web
www.radicalbowling.com
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: DrBwlr15 on December 19, 2013, 09:52:26 PM
Thanks newguy, I decided to give Radical a shot. Ordered myself the Yeti Untamed, hopefully It works for me..
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: Doug Sterner on December 19, 2013, 11:14:52 PM
I have found the coverstocks on the Radical balls to be incredibly versatile and adaptable...they take sanding and polishing very well and the results are repeatable....
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: Rightycomplex on December 20, 2013, 06:52:39 AM
Radical Reax, to quote Brandon Johnson "If you don't have a Reax, you must not like to strike" LOL! As strong and oil soaking as that cover is, I'm amazed that it's able to save energy and hook as much on the back as it does. Sold a few of them and the pearl..... and the Version 2. Watching Brandon made me want a V2, so that's on the way. I swear your equipment is instant offense. LMAO!
Title: Re: Radical Cover stocks
Post by: BackToBasics on December 20, 2013, 06:14:32 PM
I'll say I've been impressed with the Reax and Reax 2.  Great combination of strong core and cover that's still versatile.  You don't see that too often. They are usually way too much midlane and puke down lane.   I had that issue with the Nexxxus and Auras.  Not so with the Reax.