Author Topic: X - hole on Cell for more overall hook (Read 2374 times)

J_w73 · « **on:** November 23, 2008, 06:15:17 AM »

Here are some pics of my Cell. 5 1/2 inch pin to PAP with a 45 deg mb. I am not seeing the big hook that I thought I would get out of the Cell. Is there an x-hole that I can put in it to create a bigger hook. I don't know much about x-holes but I was thinking on the MB(lower right on pic). That should increase flare? and more flare equals more hook? I don't want it to be earlier .. just bigger. Is a different spot better? Is there a place for more backend vs overall hook? I know the placing is limited with the position of the cg.
Any help is appreciated.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3281/3050592786_c27ce92578_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3016/3049754133_f35a71ea82_o.jpg

Strokewiththelefthand · « **Reply #1 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:00:24 PM »

The drilling is not one that is really angular. With the pin below the bridge the ball wants to read the mids earlier and not be as angular on the back. If you want an angular reaction you want the pin above the fingers. However, with such a short pin I don't know if you can do that with the cell you have.

The cell really isn't designed to be really angular anyway. Mine is strong as heck with the same type of drilling. I'm getting the pearl in order to be more angular when the original starts burning out. Maybe you should do the same.
--------------------
Formally LeftyHawse, Jim Jones.
I'm man enough to admit I stroke with the left hand and it feels good.

Mullans pro shop Richmond, Va.

J. C. Jones coaching solutions
Richmond, Va.

Strokewiththelefthand · « **Reply #2 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:05:31 PM »

Did you have a x-hole in the ball. Because without an x-hole and that short pin layout, the ball is probably flaring out. I'm a huge fan of lower x-holes. A weight hole in the thumb quad would probably help.
--------------------
Formally LeftyHawse, Jim Jones.
I'm man enough to admit I stroke with the left hand and it feels good.

Mullans pro shop Richmond, Va.

J. C. Jones coaching solutions
Richmond, Va.

charlest · « **Reply #3 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:13:46 PM »

Any special reason you chose such a long pin to PAP PLUS placed the pin under the bridge area, if you wanted a big hook?

Unless you have lots of tilt and rotation AND a high rev rate, that drilling will not get you a large hook most of the time.

With the position of the CG I don't see how to put a weight hole that would help your ball flare enoughto make a difference.Take it back to the pro shop that did that drilling for you and tell them they were wrong (if they suggested it). You can re-drill it, for a better reaction.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 11/23/2008 4:15 PM

J_w73 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 23, 2008, 08:21:48 PM »

quote:
Any special reason you chose such a long pin to PAP PLUS placed the pin under the bridge area, if you wanted a big hook?

Unless you have lots of tilt and rotation AND a high rev rate, that drilling will not get you a large hook most of the time.

With the position of the CG I don't see how to put a weight hole that would help your ball flare enoughto make a difference.Take it back to the pro shop that did that drilling for you and tell them they were wrong (if they suggested it). You can re-drill it, for a better reaction.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 11/23/2008 4:15 PM

I chose the longer pin to pap because I have never had success with any ball that is drilled any shorter.. I have only had one ball leverage and I had to shine it up to prevent it from hooking so soon and burning up.
All of my stuff is drill 5 1/2 pin to pap but usually over the fingers.. More fore skid flip.. I didn't want flip or angularity out of this ball.. I just wanted a big smooth hook.. Maybe I should have just put the pin above the fingers and let the ball and weight block do what it was going to do.
I usually throw around 16 to 17 mph with decent revs.. I was clocked at 475 on the ebonite coaching software but I don't think I am quite that high.

J_w73 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 23, 2008, 08:24:14 PM »

quote:
The drilling is not one that is really angular. With the pin below the bridge the ball wants to read the mids earlier and not be as angular on the back. If you want an angular reaction you want the pin above the fingers. However, with such a short pin I don't know if you can do that with the cell you have.

The cell really isn't designed to be really angular anyway. Mine is strong as heck with the same type of drilling. I'm getting the pearl in order to be more angular when the original starts burning out. Maybe you should do the same.
--------------------
Formally LeftyHawse, Jim Jones.
I'm man enough to admit I stroke with the left hand and it feels good.

Mullans pro shop Richmond, Va.

J. C. Jones coaching solutions
Richmond, Va.

What is your speed and rev rate and pap. I want strong and smooth . I just don't see the strong and the ability to cover alot of boards. It seems to just want to hook early .. so maybe there isn't enough oil in the heads. It did get down the lane better at 4000 abralon but it became really angular.

J_w73 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 23, 2008, 08:26:32 PM »

quote:
Did you have a x-hole in the ball. Because without an x-hole and that short pin layout, the ball is probably flaring out. I'm a huge fan of lower x-holes. A weight hole in the thumb quad would probably help.
--------------------
Formally LeftyHawse, Jim Jones.
I'm man enough to admit I stroke with the left hand and it feels good.

Mullans pro shop Richmond, Va.

J. C. Jones coaching solutions
Richmond, Va.

There is no x-hole in it.. so where should I put the x-hole and what will it do..
increase the flare.. or decrease the flare..
It may be using all of its energy up front and not have annything for the mid and back end..

J_w73 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 23, 2008, 08:39:55 PM »

quote:
Read this a few times to understand where and how a weight hole will change the ball reaction.

http://morichbowling.com/MosCorner/GradientLineBalanceHole/GradientLineBalanceHole.htm

There is no better weight hole system than this one.

I have read that before.. I would agree that p4 would increase the diff and flare the most because it is 6 3/4 and right in the side of the core.. so it is in essense making the core taller in relation to the side of the core.. but I don't really know about the p1, p2, p3. I think if the p1 (pap) is 6 3/4 from the pin that it would also increase the diff and flare as well.
I am tending to believe it is more the distance from the pin that determines what the x-hole does. I have seen many different schools of thought on x-holes and I don't know which one to believe.

charlest · « **Reply #8 on:** November 24, 2008, 06:55:41 AM »

quote:
quote:
Any special reason you chose such a long pin to PAP PLUS placed the pin under the bridge area, if you wanted a big hook?

Unless you have lots of tilt and rotation AND a high rev rate, that drilling will not get you a large hook most of the time.

With the position of the CG I don't see how to put a weight hole that would help your ball flare enoughto make a difference.Take it back to the pro shop that did that drilling for you and tell them they were wrong (if they suggested it). You can re-drill it, for a better reaction.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 11/23/2008 4:15 PM

I chose the longer pin to pap because I have never had success with any ball that is drilled any shorter.. I have only had one ball leverage and I had to shine it up to prevent it from hooking so soon and burning up.
All of my stuff is drill 5 1/2 pin to pap but usually over the fingers.. More fore skid flip.. I didn't want flip or angularity out of this ball.. I just wanted a big smooth hook.. Maybe I should have just put the pin above the fingers and let the ball and weight block do what it was going to do.

Most definitely, yeS!

Pin over the bridge area does not make a ball skid/flip. It makes the ball go longer and have a more rapid transition from skid to hook to roll than a drilling with the pin under, as you did this one. "MORE" does not mean it will skid/flip just that an arc-ing ball like the Cell will be less arc-y and have a harder, smaller arc at the breakpoint.

It's not a black and white thing.
FYI If you polished yours, it will also arc harder. If you added a super high gloss polish,it will handle less oil and be closer to a pearlized flip without actually being one.
If you used a high pin and a high gloss polish, it will be flippy, but stillnot as flippy as a Cell Pearl.

Reactions are very relative to drilling, surface and bowler's release.

quote:

I usually throw around 16 to 17 mph with decent revs.. I was clocked at 475 on the ebonite coaching software but I don't think I am quite that high.

Yes, even if you're "only" at 400 rpms,I understand the 5 1/2" pin distance.

If you do choose to re-drill at or above the bridge height, try a 4.5" or 5" pin to PAP.

I can't see exactly where the MB is. Is it like 2" left of the thumb?
The MB is significant on this ball. SO its placement will be reflected in the backend/breakpoint.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

J_w73 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 24, 2008, 09:34:20 AM »

The MB is to the right and below the thumbhole.. you can see it at the bottom right on the second pic.
So then won't putting an x-hole on the mass bias in essence make the core taller and more like if it was above the fingers. I mean after all. when you put the pin above the fingers it is the holes that make the above the fingers pin placement do what it does.. The holes take more out of the side of the core(making it taller in relation) as opposed to the top(making it shorter).

Is the 45deg mb(using the dual angel technique) too smooth and maybe I should have gone at 60 deg like the rest of my stuff??

Edited on 11/24/2008 10:34 AM

Author Topic: X - hole on Cell for more overall hook (Read 2374 times)

J_w73

X - hole on Cell for more overall hook

Strokewiththelefthand

Re: X - hole on Cell for more overall hook

Strokewiththelefthand

Re: X - hole on Cell for more overall hook

charlest

Re: X - hole on Cell for more overall hook

J_w73

Re: X - hole on Cell for more overall hook

J_w73

Re: X - hole on Cell for more overall hook

J_w73

Re: X - hole on Cell for more overall hook

J_w73

Re: X - hole on Cell for more overall hook

charlest

Re: X - hole on Cell for more overall hook

J_w73

Re: X - hole on Cell for more overall hook