thanks mark, you will remember how most of the centers in northern california are. very few offer longer and heavier patterns. most of the so called fresh shots are on the shorter side without a lot of volume. dublin bowl and a few others however are a little different in that there seems to be a greater differential between the inside and outside creating a definite o/u problem. that is i guess what i am asking. with my slower speed, will the horizon or the saturn roll smoother on the o/u conditions?