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Author Topic: Rogue Cell Surface  (Read 3964 times)

clt2244

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Rogue Cell Surface
« on: June 06, 2009, 06:12:16 PM »
There was a few questions a while back regarding the Box surface on the Rogue Cell, lots of people complaining that if they resurface there rogue cell to 4000 they werent getting the box reaction for it, so i emailed roto about this as i know im not far from resurfacing my rogue cell myself

here is the response i got from roto grip regarding how to resurface the Rogue Cell:

"The resurfacing method for the Rogue is correct.  Use a spinner to resurface the ball to 500 on four sides for 40 seconds on each side.  After that use a 4000 abralon pad for about 10 seconds on each side and you should be back to box finish."

some people were thinking that the Rogue Cell wasnt a true 4000 box finish, hope this cleared some things up and helped people out there
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HAMMERDOWN103

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Re: Rogue Cell Surface
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2009, 06:04:29 PM »
That sounds like a weird way to get to 4000. I would think you would go 500, 1000, 2000, and then 4000. Atleast that is the way i would do it. And normally when i just freshen it up i go one grit lower than what i want. So if i want 4000, i go 2000 and then 4000....
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Monster Pike

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Re: Rogue Cell Surface
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2009, 07:02:15 PM »
Hammerdown, they do it that way, because you don't want to smoothe it down as much.  There are natural peaks & valleys in the coverstock & that's what gives it's intended reaction.  By altering it too much, you take away it's intended purpose w/the core.  If you use as many ab pads as you suggest, then you're smoothing the coverstocks peaks & valleys too much.  That's why you go with the rough 500, then the smoother 4000.  I saw this posted in another topic from a staffer, I believe, Storm or Roto, can't remember which.  Cleared it up for me also.  Hope that helps some.

Monster Pike.


Edited on 6/7/2009 7:05 PM

dballz

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Re: Rogue Cell Surface
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2009, 10:10:07 AM »
i also read the same article and found it very interesting. i use to also use every pad to go up to either 2k or 4k, but i also found the balls going a little longer because of this. while i haven't tried the surface adjustments by roto-grip/storm yet, i do think that it makes sense to use their process and will try it on my stuff soon to see the results.

charlest

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Re: Rogue Cell Surface
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2009, 06:13:09 PM »
quote:
That sounds like a weird way to get to 4000. I would think you would go 500, 1000, 2000, and then 4000. Atleast that is the way i would do it. And normally when i just freshen it up i go one grit lower than what i want. So if i want 4000, i go 2000 and then 4000....
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It is not a true 4000 grit surface because 4000 grit will not smooth out 500 grit sanding lines.
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charlest

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Re: Rogue Cell Surface
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2009, 06:23:02 PM »
quote:
i think this surface trick was a big reason why there balls were so good this year, i think they let the cat out of the bag on this one!


Don't think of it as a "trick".
Think of it as as alternative method.

As much as I think, on first look, that it's a bizarre twist, it is really a valid way to get more hook and more backend from a given coverstock.

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StormTech

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Re: Rogue Cell Surface
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2009, 02:21:07 PM »
Rather than considering the 500, then skip to 'x' finish as a trick, think of it as a way to manipulate the surface topography to achieve the desired results. Imagine, if you will, a mountain range. The high peaks and values are a representation of the same peaks and valleys, if examined by an electron microscope, that you would find on the surface of the ball.

Hence, if you take 360, 500, 1000, 2000, and then 4000 to a bowling ball, you have effectively leveled the mountains and filled in the valleys creating a very smooth surface. This surface is closer to a true '4000' finish in the fact that the peaks are valleys are now extremely small, but in this process you have eliminated the surface topography that creates a 'good' ball reaction. In other words, you now have a ball that skids on oil but also resists the hook and roll phase of ball reaction. Therefore, if you do not have a high rev rate, a short oil pattern or a well defined track area at your center, the ball will most likely not perform as well as desired/expected.

However, if you take 360 grit to create the base topography and then lightly (but thoroughly) apply a 500 grit you have now created a strong surface topography. This will enhance the balls cover and generate a higher coefficient of friction (friction = hook). The only problem with this 360/500 base is the friction is also greater in the oil, the heads, and the mid-lane. This isn't always a bad thing, but on many patterns this means the ball will pick up too early, have less angle, and hit 'flat' on the back.

So the true question is, how can we generate more friction down-lane but still get the ball to skid through the heads? The answer is take the base foundation created by 360/500 and smooth the peaks and valleys without destroying them. By skipping the middle stages (1000, 2000 for example), you can avoid destroying the peaks and valleys while simultaneously rounding them slightly. This creates a surface topography that will skid on heavy oil (heads), still read the mid-lane (slightly), but generate a tremendous amount of friction in the back.

This method can revive a 'dead' ball while restoring the original out of box reaction. Even though it is not technically a 4000 finish, no ball is truly 4000. If we analyze the P standard used to give the quantitative measurement (500 grit for example), what we will find is that no ball, no matter how it has been finished will truly match the same 'P' rating given to resurfacing medium last used. In other words, a urethane ball finished at 500 grit abralon will have 50% smaller peaks and valleys than a reactive urethane sanded with same 500. Therefore, if we wanted to be precise when we call a ball finished at 'X' we would have to analyze the actual finish and give it a 'true' P rating standard. In the urethane example, a 500 grit abralon pad would give the urethane cover a true '240ish' P standard rating. This is why we finish our balls at '4000' so the end user knows what grit we last used for our finish.




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Monster Pike

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Re: Rogue Cell Surface
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2009, 02:53:17 PM »
There it is!!  Thanks Storm Tech guy!!

TheDude

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Re: Rogue Cell Surface
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2009, 02:59:07 PM »
Ernest has the answer!
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Keep them honest!

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Stormtexmex

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Re: Rogue Cell Surface
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2009, 05:58:21 PM »
makes sense to me, i am going to try this to all of my balls to make them roll better

StormTech

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Re: Rogue Cell Surface
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2009, 10:24:30 AM »
Quote
Ernest has the answer!
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Actually it's Victor, but good guess
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Bigmike

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Re: Rogue Cell Surface
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2009, 02:04:49 PM »
Victor is the man. I talked to him once on a return on an Attitude Shift and he gave me some lay out hints. After we spoke about what I really liked with the Attitude, he even suggested a Dimension with a similar layout and some surface ideas.

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lovespider

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Re: Rogue Cell Surface
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2009, 11:35:38 AM »
Would you need to go through this process to take the surface from oob down to 2000 abralon, or could you just use the 2k on the oob ball?