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Author Topic: Dare Devil Trick  (Read 3382 times)

ryguy119

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Dare Devil Trick
« on: July 04, 2017, 08:11:41 AM »
Last night I could not carry with this ball for the 1st 2 games.  3rd game I moved back a good 18 " on the approach and had the front 9. Left a wobbly 4 pin in 10th but still was amazed at how such a small adjustment can make such a huge difference in my carry. Also thinking that this ball performs better for me with a bit of lane shine on it. I noticed by 3rd game ball looked almost polished. Thinking about keeping it like this,especially after last night. I have the No Rules at OOB as my heavy ball. I was wondering if anybody else has kept ball shined and how it rolled. Usually clean ball with clean n dull after bowling but think I am going to skip doing this. Storm makes a cleaner that doesn't really dull the ball like clean n dull does. Amazing how much moving your feet back can completely change the way the ball carries. I guess the statement "you learn something new every time you bowl" is so true.

 

Rightycomplex

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Re: Dare Devil Trick
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2017, 02:06:46 PM »
I think in this case for you, find a regular every set cleaner that will take off surface dirty and oil. For Example, the Vise Cleaner, Tac Up, something like that. I think you weren't seeing enough friction to start the set which is why carry suffered, especially if you were in the pocket. Maybe an adjust to get the ball into the friction quicker.
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Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Dare Devil Trick
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2017, 07:33:17 AM »
Well it also depends on what you think changed.  The Trick is also not a great house shot ball but yes, will most likely be best on a house shot polished because that will give you more shape.  The only thing moving back changes is your mechanics.  The lane transition also may have finally gotten to a good spot for you.  Most people when they say they moved back or forward think that has something to do with making the ball hook earlier or later.  Regardless of where you stand, if a pattern is 40' long, it will stay 40' long no matter how far forward or backward you move . . moving forward and backward changes the length of your steps, which can cause you to walk slower or faster, which changes the rest of your mechanics. 

Last night I could not carry with this ball for the 1st 2 games.  3rd game I moved back a good 18 " on the approach and had the front 9. Left a wobbly 4 pin in 10th but still was amazed at how such a small adjustment can make such a huge difference in my carry. Also thinking that this ball performs better for me with a bit of lane shine on it. I noticed by 3rd game ball looked almost polished. Thinking about keeping it like this,especially after last night. I have the No Rules at OOB as my heavy ball. I was wondering if anybody else has kept ball shined and how it rolled. Usually clean ball with clean n dull after bowling but think I am going to skip doing this. Storm makes a cleaner that doesn't really dull the ball like clean n dull does. Amazing how much moving your feet back can completely change the way the ball carries. I guess the statement "you learn something new every time you bowl" is so true.
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tloy

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Re: Dare Devil Trick
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2017, 08:34:16 AM »
Luke,

Would you recommend polishing the Trick if you want to use on a house shot? Thank you

Good Times Good Times

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Re: Dare Devil Trick
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2017, 09:06:50 AM »
Luke,

Would you recommend polishing the Trick if you want to use on a house shot? Thank you

Sentence #2........

The Trick is also not a great house shot ball but yes, will most likely be best on a house shot polished because that will give you more shape.

 :P  :P  :P  :P  :P  :P

I'm sure the DDT is a great ball but it does seem like there might be a better option for a THS.  Instead of trying to shape this ball and forcing it to work via less surface, take a look at some of the options that are designed with more of a THS in mind.  I'm sure the DDT would work but the question becomes "am I getting the maximum out of my ball selection?".
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 09:09:38 AM by Good Times Good Times »
GTx2

JazlarVonSteich

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Re: Dare Devil Trick
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2017, 11:26:58 AM »
Well it also depends on what you think changed.  The Trick is also not a great house shot ball but yes, will most likely be best on a house shot polished because that will give you more shape.  The only thing moving back changes is your mechanics.  The lane transition also may have finally gotten to a good spot for you.  Most people when they say they moved back or forward think that has something to do with making the ball hook earlier or later.  Regardless of where you stand, if a pattern is 40' long, it will stay 40' long no matter how far forward or backward you move . . moving forward and backward changes the length of your steps, which can cause you to walk slower or faster, which changes the rest of your mechanics. 

Two things I disagree with.

1. It may be our house shot, but the Trick is an excellent house shot ball - at box finish. A few of use around here have had great success on our house shot with the ball.

2. The forward/backward thing is not true for everyone. While some may see their steps change in length while moving forward/back, others do not. If you don't focus on the change from the foul line, and walk your normal steps, you should not be finishing in the same spot. That's a mental issue.

Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Dare Devil Trick
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2017, 12:00:09 PM »
Likely your house shot.  On heavier volumes, it might be pretty outstanding, it was for me at Greater Ozarks.  For most, it won't have enough shape on the backend to put up really high scores. 

Yes, it is a mental issue that results in physical changes, but most people finish in the same spot.  If you end up a foot behind the foul line normally and move up two feet on the approach, you're never going to slide a foot past the foul line.  Most people fixate on where they end up at the line, regardless of whether they move forward or backwards, they end up at the same place at the line.  I don't think I've ever seen someone move forward or backwards and end up in a different place at the line from where they normally do.  It forces them to take bigger or smaller steps to arrive in the same place, and that affects mechanics.  You'd screw your head up way too much trying to focus on taking the same steps and then if you end up in different places in relation to the foul line, then your marks have moved, and if your marks move, you're adjusting to get stuff there. 

If it didn't affect mechanics, would be no reason to do it because nothing about ball reaction can change unless physical changes are produced. 

I hear too many people say they weren't carrying the 10, so they moved 6 inches back on the approach which got the ball to move just enough earlier to get it out, and that's absolutely incorrect.  Moving back 6 inches doesn't magically make a 40 foot pattern 39 feet 6 inches. 

Well it also depends on what you think changed.  The Trick is also not a great house shot ball but yes, will most likely be best on a house shot polished because that will give you more shape.  The only thing moving back changes is your mechanics.  The lane transition also may have finally gotten to a good spot for you.  Most people when they say they moved back or forward think that has something to do with making the ball hook earlier or later.  Regardless of where you stand, if a pattern is 40' long, it will stay 40' long no matter how far forward or backward you move . . moving forward and backward changes the length of your steps, which can cause you to walk slower or faster, which changes the rest of your mechanics. 

Two things I disagree with.

1. It may be our house shot, but the Trick is an excellent house shot ball - at box finish. A few of use around here have had great success on our house shot with the ball.

2. The forward/backward thing is not true for everyone. While some may see their steps change in length while moving forward/back, others do not. If you don't focus on the change from the foul line, and walk your normal steps, you should not be finishing in the same spot. That's a mental issue.
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JazlarVonSteich

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Re: Dare Devil Trick
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2017, 01:51:02 PM »
Yeah, probably our house shot. It generally has more volume. People come here for some tournaments and mention how much oil is out there. And I've went to other cities in the province and have seen just how much more the balls hooks.

I still disagree about the forward/back issue. I rarely do it, except when I need to create more momentum - with larger steps - but I've seen other people successfully change their carry by doing it. Whatever the "science" behind it, it works for them. Also, it may not change the oil pattern, but if you DO end up in a different spot, it would change your lay down spot. This could definitely change the ball reaction.

Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Dare Devil Trick
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2017, 01:59:47 PM »
Yeah I'm agreeing it changes something, just not what people think it does.  They think moving 6 inches back makes the ball react 6 inches sooner.  It produces changes that makes the ball react differently, but they're physical changes or delivery changes that alter the ball roll.  I move forwards and backwards too occasionally, but usually it's forward to slow my steps down.  If I get fast with my feet, my armswing speeds up and it screws my timing.  Move up, take smaller steps, feet slow down, armswing stays where it's supposed to.  Knowing why something works is more important than how it works, because if you know why it works, you can apply it to other parts of your game to produce beneficial changes there as well. 

Yeah, probably our house shot. It generally has more volume. People come here for some tournaments and mention how much oil is out there. And I've went to other cities in the province and have seen just how much more the balls hooks.

I still disagree about the forward/back issue. I rarely do it, except when I need to create more momentum - with larger steps - but I've seen other people successfully change their carry by doing it. Whatever the "science" behind it, it works for them. Also, it may not change the oil pattern, but if you DO end up in a different spot, it would change your lay down spot. This could definitely change the ball reaction.
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JazlarVonSteich

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Re: Dare Devil Trick
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2017, 03:30:44 PM »
Ok, I can agree with that. As I said, I rarely move forward and back on the approach. I adjust horizontally for better carry and/or switch balls. I just know it works for some people. I also know that it is indeed possible to finish in a different spot on the approach. You just need to take your regular steps and not focus on where the foul line is. Whether or not it is beneficial is up for debate.