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Author Topic: Even Reaction Rogue Cell  (Read 2125 times)

tomgriffin

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Even Reaction Rogue Cell
« on: April 23, 2009, 12:54:33 AM »
I am picking up a rogue cell this week and am looking for advice on the following:

*Is there a layout that folks have had success with to get an even reaction? I already have too many skid-flip balls. I'm looking for more of a strong arc to the pocket.

*Is there any validity to the statement that asymmetric pieces can't accomplish the reaction I described above? One of the shop's staffers was saying that it's impossible to get that kind of heavy arc out of an asymmetric ball - but all of Roto's marketing seems to contradict that, especially with the Cell core.

Any advice?
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dizzyfugu

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Re: Even Reaction Rogue Cell
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2009, 09:08:36 AM »
From what I know, you can achieve a controlled arc with asymmetricla cores - even though I wonder why you'd chose such a piece if you want a recation that is more suited to a symmetrucal piece?

Since you do not provide a PAP a recommendation is tricky. I'd go with a 1-3" pin pall, not too much top weight, and put the pin under the fingers ( 4-4.5" from PAP - leverage if you need a big hook, just 2" or less if you want a minimal arcing hook) and the CG/MB stacked/in a 90° position to your PAP.

AFAIK, this should be a solution, but it is just vague since it is always better to see someone actually bowl before setting up a strong asymmetrcial piece. Beware!
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Edited on 4/23/2009 9:08 AM
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laddog54

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Re: Even Reaction Rogue Cell
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2009, 09:16:06 AM »
If you want an even reaction go with the Original Cell. I have a Rogue that is Rico'd and even it snaps on the back end.
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Dan Belcher

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Re: Even Reaction Rogue Cell
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2009, 09:16:45 AM »
If you're looking for a more even-reacting piece, why are you picking up the Rogue Cell instead of an original Cell?  You can alter the natural characteristics of a ball, but you can only do it so much.  The Cell is rollier and earlier by nature than the Rogue Cell thanks to the different coverstock, why not take advantage of that?
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Steve Richter

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Re: Even Reaction Rogue Cell
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2009, 11:52:11 AM »
I qualify what I say below with I do not know how you throw and because you lack profile information this is tricky at best so take the information as advise only and seek out a qualified IBPSIA pro shop to help you.

We have found success with CELL cores creating a very strong arc with MB positions 1"-2" PAST the VAL, with holes on the PAP.  Starts the ball sooner but core shape alloows it to still continue.
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tomgriffin

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Re: Even Reaction Rogue Cell
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2009, 12:11:32 PM »
My PAP is about 5 1/2 over and 1 3/8 up if that helps anyone
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J_w73

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Re: Even Reaction Rogue Cell
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2009, 12:11:39 PM »
I would agree.. get the original cell. I gave mine away because it didn't have any backend.  I wanted to be able to cover some boards with it but the way it was drilled made it early and smooth.

I would think a pin under drilling (4 inch pin to pap)with a 45 deg or less mb.. This will get the ball into a roll really early and smooth out the reaction.  Put a weight hole on the PAP to bring it back legal.
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wpzone

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Re: Even Reaction Rogue Cell
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2009, 01:20:13 PM »
I drilled my Rogue at 5x3x2 1/2 and it is MUCH smoother than either of my Cells and love it.  I have tried several different surfaces from OOB, 1000 dull, 4000 polished and everything in between and it keeps that very smooth predicatble roll.
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J_w73

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Re: Even Reaction Rogue Cell
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2009, 01:30:50 PM »
quote:
I drilled my Rogue at 5x3x2 1/2 and it is MUCH smoother than either of my Cells and love it.  I have tried several different surfaces from OOB, 1000 dull, 4000 polished and everything in between and it keeps that very smooth predicatble roll.


I was going to say that if you did go Rogue you would want a very small mb drill angle.. is the 2 1/2 the mb distance to PAP.. if so .. yours is about 20 deg.. that would smooth it out for sure
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wpzone

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Re: Even Reaction Rogue Cell
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2009, 01:32:28 PM »
5x3 with a 2 1/2 pin buffer.  Sorry for the confusion.

Edited on 4/23/2009 1:33 PM
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r534me

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Re: Even Reaction Rogue Cell
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2009, 01:35:13 PM »
quote:
I would agree.. get the original cell. I gave mine away because it didn't have any backend.  I wanted to be able to cover some boards with it but the way it was drilled made it early and smooth.

I would think a pin under drilling (4 inch pin to pap)with a 45 deg or less mb.. This will get the ball into a roll really early and smooth out the reaction.  Put a weight hole on the PAP to bring it back legal.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180



Off topic: I had the same issue with my Special Agent.  I sent an e-mail to Storm tech and altered the surface based on their suggestions.  I use it on med conditions and it's a like a totally new ball.  It still rolls early but now it has backend and keeps rolling through the pins.
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J_w73

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Re: Even Reaction Rogue Cell
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2009, 01:46:02 PM »
quote:
5x3 with a 2 1/2 pin buffer.  Sorry for the confusion.

Edited on 4/23/2009 1:33 PM


well MB 3 inches from PAP.. still about the same.. 30 deg.. still would smooth it out alot..

by the way.. to the second part of the post.. I would say the person that said that about asymmetrical balls is wrong.. I think asymmetrical balls allow you to do just what you are trying to do.. but they also allow you to get the flip on the back if you want it.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180



Edited on 4/23/2009 1:51 PM

Edited on 4/23/2009 1:58 PM
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tomgriffin

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Re: Even Reaction Rogue Cell
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2009, 06:31:35 PM »
Thank you to everyone for your help. It looks like there is some consensus on the 5x3 layout with a 2 1/2 pin buffer. I'll let you know how it works
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J_w73

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Re: Even Reaction Rogue Cell
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2009, 06:46:59 PM »
quote:
Thank you to everyone for your help. It looks like there is some consensus on the 5x3 layout with a 2 1/2 pin buffer. I'll let you know how it works


If you got to a 4 inch pin to pap I would think that would make it even smoother because it would be wanting have more flare and want to hook earlier


putting the MB past the VAL will have it rev up early and smooth out even more..

It might be too strong though.. and roll out on less than oily conditions.

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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

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chitown

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Re: Even Reaction Rogue Cell
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2009, 12:57:51 PM »
I would suggest the original cell instead of the rogue.  The rogue is very strong on the backend.  If your set on getting a Rogue then think about placing the MB closer to your VAL with a 25 degree type of layout.
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