Author Topic: Replacement concerns .... (Read 3134 times)

charlest · « **on:** June 27, 2004, 06:02:34 AM »

I just saw a note that the Sonic-X pearl is being discontinued and this thought occurred to me:

If RG is replacing the Sonic-X pearl and solid with the Sonic Boom and the Super Sonic, (I say "If", because I am not sure), I think that is sad and giving in to the duffers. The replacements have much more backend and much more skid/flip look which is hardly ever need on the dry lanes where such balls are used.

Brunswick did the same when their small hooking balls, the Groove line, were replaced by the Power Groove balls, much bigger hookers.
Columbia did it when the Beast line, using the Flexcel coverstock, was basically replaced by the Scout/Wild line with the Super-Flex coverstock, again, a much stronger cover.

I can only hope that RG is replacing the Sonics with equivalent balls, not stronger balls.

Not everyone needs balls to hook 25 boards at the backend on every occasion!
--------------------
"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."

DP3 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 27, 2004, 09:22:30 PM »

They are keeping the Solid Sonic which hooks less than the Sonic X Pearl. With the Sonic X solid they made a core tweak to lower the diff a little. Although I've seen places list the differential the same on the Solid Sonic and the Sonic X, this is coming direct from Roto Grip staff saying the Solid has less differential, so it'd be slightly less aggressive and lower flaring than the Sonic X. Don't worry, they still have a drylane ball.
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
You're not Bowling if you're not using "B"runswick
Scratchbowling.com

Jeffrevs · « **Reply #2 on:** June 28, 2004, 08:59:39 AM »

quote:
They are keeping the Solid Sonic which hooks less than the Sonic X Pearl. With the Sonic X solid they made a core tweak to lower the diff a little. Although I've seen places list the differential the same on the Solid Sonic and the Sonic X, this is coming direct from Roto Grip staff saying the Solid has less differential, so it'd be slightly less aggressive and lower flaring than the Sonic X. Don't worry, they still have a drylane ball.

DJ,
Don't know where you got that, but it's not true...the Sonic Solid has the exact same core as the original and has .020 diff,......that's not from staff, that's from Roger and the gang at RG.......
--------------------
JEFF
There is doing in not doing

Krumpy300 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 29, 2004, 04:03:16 PM »

The Sonic X Pearl is a great ball, very much underated if you ask me. I've used it on mediums as well as medium-light to quite a bit of success. I'd love to try the X Solid and I agree with Charlest, I'd be much happier with an equivalent release, not a boomer. Balls hit hard enough today that you don't need a huge backend to be effective.

K300

Jeffrevs · « **Reply #4 on:** June 30, 2004, 07:19:25 AM »

pay attention folks............there is still a mild ball in this bunch...

Sonic line includes....
-Sonic X Solid (same specs as the original...polished solid cover, not pearl is the only difference between it and the original!)
-Sonic Boom
-Super Sonic
--------------------
JEFF
There is doing in not doing

Edited on 6/30/2004 7:31 AM

Lane Bed · « **Reply #5 on:** July 02, 2004, 01:00:25 AM »

It's all for the pro shops charlest. They want cheap balls that hook to sell to their customers for a "good" profit. It is too bad that they don't keep at least one in their line all the time for the bowlers that need them. Don't understand it.

----------------------

EvErOne rOllS OvEr thE LaNe Bed

bowlingmytmouse · « **Reply #6 on:** July 02, 2004, 01:47:12 AM »

Good point Jeff ,
DP3, although I hate to admit it, was right about the sonic x solid, it actually does sit under the sonic x pearl because unlike the pearl which slides longer and saves its energy for the backends, the the solid uses more energy down the lane therefore hooking less than the pearl.

JMO
BMM
--------------------
June 3, 2003 First 600 Series(208,258,170)!!!!!!

Jeffrevs · « **Reply #7 on:** July 02, 2004, 07:05:19 AM »

quote:
Good point Jeff ,
DP3, although I hate to admit it, was right about the sonic x solid, it actually does sit under the sonic x pearl because unlike the pearl which slides longer and saves its energy for the backends, the the solid uses more energy down the lane therefore hooking less than the pearl.

JMO
BMM
--------------------
June 3, 2003 First 600 Series(208,258,170)!!!!!!

Yes, it hooks less than the pearl, (on the back)but they have the same core, thus the same differential, .020, which was my point....
--------------------
JEFF
There is doing in not doing

Jeffrevs · « **Reply #8 on:** July 02, 2004, 07:06:35 AM »

quote:
It is too bad that they don't keep at least one in their line all the time for the bowlers that need them. Don't understand it.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH COMPREHESION THESE DAYS!?!?

For the last time, they ARE keeping the Sonic X Solid in the line-up!!! They DO HAVE a mild ball still in the line-up !!!

I think they're going for a 1-2-3 type thing....mild, a little stronger, and a littler stronger.......
--------------------
JEFF
There is doing in not doing

Edited on 7/2/2004 7:04 AM

Jeffrevs · « **Reply #9 on:** July 02, 2004, 10:11:45 AM »

Plus40,
I totally understand your point. And maybe, the Solid should have gone and they should have kept the original? Don't know....

Not sure how much earlier the solid really is....1500 polished solid version of the pearl....big difference ? No,....enough difference? MAYBE !

Good point........
--------------------
JEFF
There is doing in not doing

Jeffrevs · « **Reply #10 on:** July 02, 2004, 12:43:59 PM »

well the Sonics were never called "dry" balls though.....only lighter.....

in that case, the Solid does still fit that bill with only about 2 inches of flare potential....

RG really doesn't have something for DRY? I'd love to see a pearl urethane with that NEW Super Sonic core........
--------------------
JEFF
There is doing in not doing

charlest · « **Reply #11 on:** July 02, 2004, 06:16:30 PM »

Jeff,

Sorry, but the Solid is just NOT a mild ball. I tried it on a light to medium-light oil pattern this Spring for many weeks. The pin was over the bridge, making it even a high RG. The CG was in the grip center. In box condiiton it hooked too early. I sanded it to 1500 grit then applid a 2500-3000 grit polish. This added hardly any length at all. I could barely use it for the first 1 game of league.

I know the Sonic coverstock is not mild at all. The cores are high RG and low RG differential. This combo makes the ball usable on lighter BUT NOT LIGHT oil patterns.

This is one reason why I never drilled up a Sonic Boom I have and no one here seems to want a 16 lb Sonic Boom at any price. I have posted 3 times, all less than the cheap internet price I bought it. I guess that say smore than any criticism I may have.

I understand that low hook balls do not sell, so I can't really blame RG. (Phrase removed at re-edit time) ... the bottom line rules.

(Upon re-editing: )
Just so there's no mistake, that while I am annoyed at their discontinuing a ball such as the Sonic-X Pearl, my more thoughtful attitude toward RG is revealed in a comment I just wrote in a private message to a ballreview inmate:

"Don't hesitate to try any RG ball that appeals to you; they make some of the greatest bargains around. Considering how small they are, this is somewhat of a miracle."

--------------------
"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."

Edited on 7/2/2004 9:32 PM

Jeffrevs · « **Reply #12 on:** July 06, 2004, 07:25:28 AM »

charlest,

I guess it depends on your definition of "mild" .... lighter oil balls would be considered "mild" (TO ME)....yes, the sonics have some 'umph', but they're not 'strong' , .....they're not 'weak' ....so I just say "mild"...

And, to that exact same token,...your definition of "light to medium light oil" must be different than mine. With that prep and that drill, light to medium light was TOO dry for your solid....wow!

All that being said though.....

I totally understand your situation w/ the solid. I don't see a lot of drier, let alone lighter stuff around here, so the solid is perfect ...(when I need it

)

Based upon your experience then,....the Sonic Pearl would be too much as well. It's the same coverstock pearlized, and while different, and while longer,...I just can't see it being THAT much longer and cleaner...but, quite honestly, I've never thrown them "side by side" to compare, so I could by way off ....

Great in-put by the way!
--------------------
JEFF
There is doing in not doing

Mustang Guy · « **Reply #13 on:** July 06, 2004, 11:54:27 AM »

Wow, thanks for the comments good and bad.

Regarding the Super Sonic release let me say a few things. We will never be a ball of the month club. Therefor we keep our product line small and try to cover the most common lane conditions. Dry lanes and heavy oil are not the most common so we have 1 particle ball in our line-up and we have one semi-weaker ball (sonic x). Where criticism is given on Roto Grip regarding our moves please look at a company like Columbia for instance. They have 10 low end balls (beasts, scouts, wild's). Because we are getting bigger and becoming more well known we are compared to and looked at like these bigger companies. They can keep balls in their line-up for years if it does well because they can continue to just release balls all the time and it doesn't matter. Ball companies are driven by ball releases. So when you take a company like us and we release a bunch of balls that have done very well and ball release time comes, what do you do? Do you just increase your product line and start doing what everyone else does or do you try and continue to change your product line by bringing out new balls and taking out old ones? This makes it very tough for us to decide which balls to discontinue and which balls to keep. The Silver Streak solid was set to be discontinued when the SS Particle was, but we couldn't do it because we are still selling them so naturally we go with the slower moving balls. Unfortunately most bowlers buy what is new and forget what is old. If we were still selling 100-300 sonics a month we would keep it around. But unfortunately our distributors will not warehouse our full product line if we continue to just release more and not discontinue them. The reason we do well is that we continue to rotate product. Who is to say that the next sonic ball or entry level ball in our line won't be a weaker ball like the Sonic X was. We always look to see what is needed the most in our line or what people want. Naturally with the release of the Super Sonic we probably don't want to go any more aggressive because then you start to get close in reaction to our mid performance line.

So for those of you who are disappointed in us discontinuing the Sonic X there are still some available. If you want one please call me and I will work it out with your local pro shop and try to get you one. For those of you who have one and don't understand our moves I hope I helped to shed some light on the situation. More than likely our next entry level ball will be a new core or a weaker version of the Sonic X again. The fact of the matter is that nobody wants to buy a ball that is 18 months old. They want the latest and greatest. I do hope some day that starts to change and we can keep balls in our line longer and sell more of one product.

We will see how and when that takes place.

Thanks,
--------------------
Roger Noordhoek
Technical & Customer
Services Manager
Roto Grip, Inc.
888-450-6920
RogerN@rotogrip.com
www.rotogrip.com

For all your Roto Grip Logo Merchandise please visit www.rotogear.com

charlest · « **Reply #14 on:** July 10, 2004, 09:43:05 PM »

Roger,

Your reply is fully understood AND fully appreciated. Distributors and people, in general, will force you to stock the lastest and greatest AND what is the best selling. It is thus very easy to see how a smallish company like Roto-Grip can get backed into an undesirable corner, between a rock and a hard place, so to speak.

While we are a vociferous minority here at ballreviews, you AND all the members of this little "asylum" should remember that we are a minority. I, among them, wish I could buy all the interesting balls I see and read about; if so, there are at least 3 more RG balls I'd love to get my hands on ...

If 1 out of every 10 members bought an RG ball, Roger and RG management would be happier ball people.

--------------------
"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."

Author Topic: Replacement concerns .... (Read 3134 times)

charlest

Replacement concerns ....

DP3

Re: Replacement concerns ....

Jeffrevs

Re: Replacement concerns ....

Krumpy300

Re: Replacement concerns ....

Jeffrevs

Re: Replacement concerns ....

Lane Bed

Re: Replacement concerns ....

bowlingmytmouse

Re: Replacement concerns ....

Jeffrevs

Re: Replacement concerns ....

Jeffrevs

Re: Replacement concerns ....

Jeffrevs

Re: Replacement concerns ....

Jeffrevs

Re: Replacement concerns ....

charlest

Re: Replacement concerns ....

Jeffrevs

Re: Replacement concerns ....

Mustang Guy

Re: Replacement concerns ....

charlest

Re: Replacement concerns ....