Author Topic: Theory, same cover as Invasion? (Read 5841 times)

tywithay · « **on:** December 27, 2010, 05:55:35 PM »

Has a similar cover scheme and similar look, poured in the same plant, any chance they're the same? Haven't had a chance to drill my Theory yet and I'm just kind of wondering what to expect. I really liked my Invasion when I had a chance to throw it. Trying to figure out if these two balls will be pretty similar. Low Rg, strong solid cover...seem somewhat alike.

charlest · « **Reply #1 on:** December 28, 2010, 06:31:51 AM »

Probably not. I don't know for sure, but -
A couple of years ago, I learned that RG was actually sourcing their resin from a different supplier than Storm did. I'm not sure if they're still doing this, but when Hank Boomershine says he has an all new ball, I'd take him at his word. (While Mr. B is now technically a Storm executive, I think he still has a soft place in his heart for Roto-Grip.)
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
BowlingChat.net

sstaz · « **Reply #2 on:** December 28, 2010, 06:45:07 AM »

http://www.rotogrip.com/products/balls/ball.asp?ballid=114

http://www.stormbowling.com/products/balls/invasion

two diffrent cover stocks but kinda the same color

billdozer · « **Reply #3 on:** December 28, 2010, 08:30:16 AM »

I have 3 invasions and now a theory, I would have to say its not the same just from what I have noticed, I have a ton more mid lane and less angularity...id really compare it to a better version of the original cell in ALL aspects.

But once again thats my experience, after every succeeding cell I wished they would have gone more in the direction of the original, and now I have that ball with the theory. Its simply more mid lane & more backend, than the original, and definitely a more defined break point shape this time around. I kept the layout angular and I love it.

I hope any of that helps
--------------------
my arsenal..

http://s890.photobucket.com/albums/ac110/_billdozer/My%20Arsenal/

Steve Richter · « **Reply #4 on:** December 31, 2010, 04:39:00 PM »

This is for sure a new cover. While in the recent past they have been focusing on increasing the surface roughness from top to bottom of the peaks (Ra), this one adds more surface roughness across the peaks (Rs). I have personally seen the profiles from Hank and I can attest this is something completely different than anything they have up to today.

While I have been accused of being a Storm/RG "homer" a time or two, to be honest, I'll say that in MY experience this cover takes a bit more maintenance to keep fresh. IMO, the cover takes a "lane shine" faster than others (makes sense since the Rs is increased), but when you refresh the cover with your favorite Abralon grit, the performance change is pronounced and dramatic.

Please don't misunderstand that the performance drop is a lot - it's just that a fresh surface is quite different than a lane shined one.

I agree with Mike, but know that you'll have to keep "changing the oil at 3,000 miles" to keep performance consistent.

Steve Richter
USBC Silver Level Coach
IBPSIA Advanced Certified Technician
BPAA Skills Center Certified Teaching Professional

tywithay · « **Reply #5 on:** December 31, 2010, 05:01:38 PM »

This is the big issue I had with my first (and last until I got the Theory) Roto Grip ball, the original Cell. It got a shine to it and I saw a noticeable drop off in reaction within the first 3 games I threw it. I maintain all my equipment, clean them once a week and generally refresh the covers once a month or so, unless they don't see much use. My worry with this ball is that it will die very quickly like my Cell did. I did have a chance to throw my Theory though and the thing that impressed me was the traction in the oil. It didn't seem to cover a lot of boards or make a very pronounced move, but I could tell it was gripping the lane the whole way down. No risk of over/under period. In a lot of ways it still reminds me of the Invasion with the way it rolls. I think my Invasion may have been just a touch stronger, but this ball still is plenty strong. It won't come out often, but it will probably make its way into my tournament bag.

Steve Richter wrote on 12/31/2010 5:39 PM:
This is for sure a new cover. While in the recent past they have been focusing on increasing the surface roughness from top to bottom of the peaks (Ra), this one adds more surface roughness across the peaks (Rs). I have personally seen the profiles from Hank and I can attest this is something completely different than anything they have up to today.

While I have been accused of being a Storm/RG "homer" a time or two, to be honest, I'll say that in MY experience this cover takes a bit more maintenance to keep fresh. IMO, the cover takes a "lane shine" faster than others (makes sense since the Rs is increased), but when you refresh the cover with your favorite Abralon grit, the performance change is pronounced and dramatic.

Please don't misunderstand that the performance drop is a lot - it's just that a fresh surface is quite different than a lane shined one.

I agree with Mike, but know that you'll have to keep "changing the oil at 3,000 miles" to keep performance consistent.

Steve Richter
USBC Silver Level Coach
IBPSIA Advanced Certified Technician
BPAA Skills Center Certified Teaching Professional

Steve Richter · « **Reply #6 on:** January 01, 2011, 07:32:48 AM »

Ty,

According to new data that was presented at the Storm/Kegel clinics last March/April, surface roughness is cut in half in 7 games. Meaning that refreshing the cover once a month isn't good enough. After seeing that data, I hit mine after every two league sessions and I see no appreciable change in performance in my stuff until an oil extraction process needs to be done on the ball

Give that a shot and maybe even have your original CELL oil extracted and reset your Ra and see if that helps revive that old beast.

Steve Richter
USBC Silver Level Coach

IBPSIA Advanced Certified Technician

Bowlers Journal Top 75 Coach for 2010

BPAA Skills Center Certified Teaching Professional

River700 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 01, 2011, 11:40:18 PM »

This is interesting because. Now I don't have the new Theory or Invasion, but I do have a storm vertigo that has a slightly softer cover that shines easy and what I have noticed is that I have refresh the surface lightly after about 3 or 4 games depending on the oil on the lane. But, my point is like a few others have said is that if you want your ball to react like how it should you HAVE to be on top of cover maintenance. I get tired of hearing all these people saying that their ball dies after 30 - 50 games and when you ask them if they cleaned the ball after each session or freshened up the surface regularly with the proper abralon pad or sand paper most say they don't and some don't even know what you are talking about. So, what it comes down to is simple laziness. People expect to throw a ball for ever it seems and don't want to do anything and then get mad why it dies after 30-50 games.

After buying a ball spinner, I have seen a pretty huge difference in the consistency in ball reaction due to having lightly refreshing the surface before each use depending on the ball, cover prep and lane condition and games bowled each session.

Bowling is fun, enjoy it, don't hate it

tburky · « **Reply #8 on:** January 02, 2011, 03:01:28 AM »

River700 wrote on 1/2/2011 0:40 AM:This is interesting because. Now I don't have the new Theory or Invasion, but I do have a storm vertigo that has a slightly softer cover that shines easy and what I have noticed is that I have refresh the surface lightly after about 3 or 4 games depending on the oil on the lane. But, my point is like a few others have said is that if you want your ball to react like how it should you HAVE to be on top of cover maintenance. I get tired of hearing all these people saying that their ball dies after 30 - 50 games and when you ask them if they cleaned the ball after each session or freshened up the surface regularly with the proper abralon pad or sand paper most say they don't and some don't even know what you are talking about. So, what it comes down to is simple laziness. People expect to throw a ball for ever it seems and don't want to do anything and then get mad why it dies after 30-50 games.

After buying a ball spinner, I have seen a pretty huge difference in the consistency in ball reaction due to having lightly refreshing the surface before each use depending on the ball, cover prep and lane condition and games bowled each session.

Bowling is fun, enjoy it, don't hate it
I'm a firm believer in maintaining my equipment but many people don't want to take the time to do maintenance. A lot of people feel that paying $200+ for a ball should not constantly have to maintain the ball.

River700 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 03, 2011, 12:15:07 AM »

It really blows my mind why someone would rather buy a $200 plus bowling ball every 6 months or 3 months instead of spending like $30 - $40 on cover maintenance stuff that could make the ball last way longer. There's some local bowlers here who do the same thing and won't buy the maintenance stuff and then complain why their stuff is dieing out or not reacting right....There is one guy who has a storm fear factor that bowls every week and the ball is soo oil soaked that it reacts like a mild solid reactive now, not that strong and pretty smooth.

But, I for one don't have the $160 + to spend on a new bowling ball every 6 months so that is why I have made the investment in cover maintenance items

Bowling is fun, enjoy it, don't hate it

tywithay · « **Reply #10 on:** January 03, 2011, 02:50:32 AM »

River700 wrote on 1/3/2011 1:15 AM:
It really blows my mind why someone would rather buy a $200 plus bowling ball every 6 months or 3 months instead of spending like $30 - $40 on cover maintenance stuff that could make the ball last way longer. There's some local bowlers here who do the same thing and won't buy the maintenance stuff and then complain why their stuff is dieing out or not reacting right....There is one guy who has a storm fear factor that bowls every week and the ball is soo oil soaked that it reacts like a mild solid reactive now, not that strong and pretty smooth.

But, I for one don't have the $160 + to spend on a new bowling ball every 6 months so that is why I have made the investment in cover maintenance items

Bowling is fun, enjoy it, don't hate it

$30-$40 a month on cover maintainence over 6 months equals $180-$240 a month, which is more than just buying a new ball. Not sure how that adds up. I think any serious bowler that has a decent arsenal of balls would be doing themselves a great deal by just buying a ball spinner, which can be had for $200. You can think resurface bowling balls at your own will and save a lot of money in the process. At $25 per resurface (which is on the low end), you can pay for the machine after 8 bowling balls.

Big Jake · « **Reply #11 on:** January 23, 2011, 07:22:06 PM »

While I have been accused of being a Storm/RG "homer" a time or two, to be honest, I'll say that in MY experience this cover takes a bit more maintenance to keep fresh. IMO, the cover takes a "lane shine" faster than others (makes sense since the Rs is increased), but when you refresh the cover with your favorite Abralon grit, the performance change is pronounced and dramatic.

The same is true with my mutant cell. I resurfaced it yesterday with a grey scotch-bright pad and then hit it with a fresh 2K abralon pad and bowled this morning with it and it looked very very shiny at the end of the 2nd game.

So shiny that my friend that was bowling next to me thought that I had put some polish on it. I also maintain all of my gear religiously, I was very surprised to say the least.

I pretty much throw most name brands and like them all...

charlest · « **Reply #12 on:** January 24, 2011, 01:44:45 PM »

Jake,

It does happen that once a ball has absorbed a bit of oil (Your Mutant Cell is not exactly a new ball), it gets "lane oil shine" much quicker in appearance when used on oily lanes, than it does when it is new or has had the oil recently extracted. I don't know the last time you had an oil extraction done on your Mutant. Could it need one now?

One other thing is the original Cell had a cover that was supposed to last longer than average for oilers. Not sure if it absorbed oil slower or what. But I'd be surprised if the Mutant's coverstock was not based on the original Cell's coverstock. So it can also last slightly longer than other oil balls before it needs an extraction. Seeing how yours developed an oil shine so quickly I suspect it may need an oil extraction. Just a thought.

Big Jake wrote on 1/23/2011 8:22 PM:While I have been accused of being a Storm/RG "homer" a time or two, to be honest, I'll say that in MY experience this cover takes a bit more maintenance to keep fresh. IMO, the cover takes a "lane shine" faster than others (makes sense since the Rs is increased), but when you refresh the cover with your favorite Abralon grit, the performance change is pronounced and dramatic.

The same is true with my mutant cell. I resurfaced it yesterday with a grey scotch-bright pad and then hit it with a fresh 2K abralon pad and bowled this morning with it and it looked very very shiny at the end of the 2nd game.

So shiny that my friend that was bowling next to me thought that I had put some polish on it. I also maintain all of my gear religiously, I was very surprised to say the least.

I pretty much throw most name brands and like them all...

"None are so blind as those who will not see."
BowlingChat.net

Big Jake · « **Reply #13 on:** January 24, 2011, 04:53:33 PM »

Jake,

It does happen that once a ball has absorbed a bit of oil (Your Mutant Cell is not exactly a new ball), it gets "lane oil shine" much quicker in appearance when used on oily lanes, than it does when it is new or has had the oil recently extracted. I don't know the last time you had an oil extraction done on your Mutant. Could it need one now?

One other thing is the original Cell had a cover that was supposed to last longer than average for oilers. Not sure if it absorbed oil slower or what. But I'd be surprised if the Mutant's coverstock was not based on the original Cell's coverstock. So it can also last slightly longer than other oil balls before it needs an extraction. Seeing how yours developed an oil shine so quickly I suspect it may need an oil extraction. Just a thought.

Hi Charlest, I give all of my oil soakers the hot-water bath every weekend as I do bowl a lot. I'm in 3 leagues and I also practice on Sunday mornings so as you can imagine the oilers do soak up rather quickly.

Even though my MC did shine up quickly it still rolled great and I had some pretty good games when the oil was there

but even though it did somewhat shine up it allowed me to use it when the lanes were breaking up.

I would say with my heavy oil balls that my Mega-Recovery actually holds a dull cover a very long time compared to my Storm Invasion (<<bah)

I pretty much throw most name brands and like them all...

charlest · « **Reply #14 on:** January 24, 2011, 08:15:22 PM »

Great, Jake.

Glad you're one of us who keep their balls in good shape.

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

"Some bowlers are crazy as pickled cats."

Author Topic: Theory, same cover as Invasion? (Read 5841 times)

tywithay

Theory, same cover as Invasion?

charlest

Re: Theory, same cover as Invasion?

sstaz

Re: Theory, same cover as Invasion?

billdozer

Re: Theory, same cover as Invasion?

Steve Richter

Re: Theory, same cover as Invasion?

tywithay

Re: Theory, same cover as Invasion?

Steve Richter

Re: Theory, same cover as Invasion?

River700

Re: Theory, same cover as Invasion?

tburky

Re: Theory, same cover as Invasion?

River700

Re: Theory, same cover as Invasion?

tywithay

Re: Theory, same cover as Invasion?

Big Jake

Re: Theory, same cover as Invasion?

charlest

Re: Theory, same cover as Invasion?

Big Jake

Re: Theory, same cover as Invasion?

charlest

Re: Theory, same cover as Invasion?