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Author Topic: Wrecker.......Pin Down?  (Read 14071 times)

TheGom

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Wrecker.......Pin Down?
« on: December 17, 2014, 12:31:57 PM »
Always wanted a Wrecker but was afraid if the "snap" at the BP

Has anyone drilled a Pin Down 55x4x70 range? I need a controlled move at the BP on the shot that I see.

I saw Schlem working it on a RG vid up the boards...look good.

Shot is on  AMF Syn, 40 ft, driving backends, and can be a bit over under

Me, PAP 4 up 1/2, Speed at line, 16.5, Revs 225-240, tilt 17, Ro 55-70

 

JustRico

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Re: Wrecker.......Pin Down?
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2014, 07:42:44 PM »
If there's a relative distance between the 2 pin placements it could depending on the shape of the core...but for the most part yes to your statement
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jlee0924

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Re: Wrecker.......Pin Down?
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2014, 05:51:18 AM »
Chris Forry's review (starts at 1:23): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8ZbffAashM

Also, I wanted to bring to attention 2 other clips that discuss pin down/pin up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmS6oNlWBa8

Starts at 1:15, where there was negligible difference between pin up/pin down but, rather, the coverstock is key.

Carolyn Dorin-Ballard discusses bowling arsenal selection in this clip. She has a pin down Wrecker and explains her rationale for it starting at 1:27. Again, coverstock is supreme compared to pin up/pin down and that pin down is definitely not contraindicated for a supposed skid/snap ball or a drier lane ball:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnrhqbVFUvs

BeerLeague

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Re: Wrecker.......Pin Down?
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2014, 07:26:59 AM »
My Wrecker is 45*5*70 with a p2 hole.

It's is an excellent ball with this layout.  It will still go plenty long enough and flip on the back end.  It is very usuable across multiple conditions with the box or 4000 abralon surface.

For reference my specs are 400 rpm, axis point is 5-3/4 with 3/16 down, around 13 degrees tilt.

2handedrook12

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Re: Wrecker.......Pin Down?
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2015, 09:48:24 PM »
What if you have a high travk and you can't use "pin down"?
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vkowalski1970

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Re: Wrecker.......Pin Down?
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2015, 10:37:27 PM »
"Pin down" means nothing. People assume that to equate to a higher Val angle. It's the angle that matters not whether it's down or up
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northface28

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Re: Wrecker.......Pin Down?
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2015, 11:02:54 PM »
"Pin down" means nothing. People assume that to equate to a higher Val angle. It's the angle that matters not whether it's down or up

I disagree, but I'm not getting into a cock measuring contest on pin up vs pin down.
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J_w73

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Re: Wrecker.......Pin Down?
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2015, 12:49:49 AM »
"Pin down" means nothing. People assume that to equate to a higher Val angle. It's the angle that matters not whether it's down or up

VAL angle is just a way to measure and communicate the layout on the ball.  In reality it does matter whether it is pin up or pin down. Or more specifically, where the finger holes and thumb hole remove mass from the core.  That is what changes the ball reaction for a given pin to PAP and ball surface.  Give me two balls with a 5 inch pin to PAP, one with the pin at the center grip and one with the center grip 6 3/4 from the pin.  I will guarantee that the reaction to friction will be nothing alike.
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vkowalski1970

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Re: Wrecker.......Pin Down?
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2015, 07:10:48 AM »
My point was that depending on pap, a high Val angle can still be above fingers and react just a smooth as a guy who had the same Val angle and it ends up below the fingers.
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J_w73

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Re: Wrecker.......Pin Down?
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2015, 07:55:34 AM »
My point was that depending on pap, a high Val angle can still be above fingers and react just a smooth as a guy who had the same Val angle and it ends up below the fingers.

Yes it could. But I don't think the reason is because they both use a high degree VAL angle. They could both use a high VAL angle and the guy with the lower pin could also be a lot more snappy.  Once you start changing PAPs, releases, speed, etc , between bowlers anything can happen..
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LookingForALeftyWall

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Re: Wrecker.......Pin Down?
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2015, 09:18:15 AM »
What about an UpRoar?  The lower diff of the UpRoar core vs. the Wrecker core makes it less flippy in comparision.

J_w73

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Re: Wrecker.......Pin Down?
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2015, 05:14:01 PM »
I think the OP already purchased the wrecker and wants to know how to get it as smooth as possible.  I think you could put the pin at center grip or go 1 1/2 to 3 inches pin to pap.  And then alter the surface to tune the reaction to friction.  I think that will be your best bet to smooth out the reaction on the Wrecker.  If you go pin at center grip you may have to put a weight hole to bring it legal and depending where you put it, it could create more flare and asymmetry and make the ball flippy.  You could put the weight hole less than 3 3/8 from the pin to help with this.  Only issue there is that it could reduce the flare so much that you get very little flare or rings that are very close together and create a very weak ball.  You would have to throw it and see how it reacts and then decide where to put the weight hole based on what flare and reaction you get.

What is your PAP?  This could be a factor when putting the pin at center grip.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 05:18:05 PM by J_w73 »
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mstevens

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Re: Wrecker.......Pin Down?
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2015, 09:09:15 PM »
just like people saying "rico" enough already. rico is not a layout.

if i have 4 people come in, drilling the same ball, the same DAL being used, guess what, it might "pin up or down" however, its the same damn drilling.

one of the worst things to happen in this industry is online nonsense, and social media which made every person an "expert" in assumptions, not reality.


northface28

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Re: Wrecker.......Pin Down?
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2015, 09:23:23 PM »
just like people saying "rico" enough already. rico is not a layout.

if i have 4 people come in, drilling the same ball, the same DAL being used, guess what, it might "pin up or down" however, its the same damn drilling.

one of the worst things to happen in this industry is online nonsense, and social media which made every person an "expert" in assumptions, not reality.


'

Rico, is that you?
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JustRico

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Re: Wrecker.......Pin Down?
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2015, 09:49:07 PM »
Yup I'm merely a social media hack that knows absolutely nothing on drilling fitting layouts or ball motion....ZERO...
Anybody that understands ball motion and the effect that flare has on motion understands there are no such thing as layouts but merely flare management...put a name on it and people get their panties bent cause it's not named after them...
Rico does exist and it creates a motion due to asymmetry and how it effects each type of roll...it's a matter of understanding this instead of merely discounting due to a name
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JustRico

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Re: Wrecker.......Pin Down?
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2015, 09:52:19 PM »
I'm also interested in the 'personal' attack on a name...no one but you brought it up to attack....interesting rant eh?
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