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Author Topic: Attitude vs No mercy beatn  (Read 2644 times)

micbowl

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Attitude vs No mercy beatn
« on: November 30, 2007, 01:45:30 PM »
Which one of these would handle heavy oil better?

 

strikestriketapped

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Re: Attitude vs No mercy beatn
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2007, 10:06:01 PM »
Attitude Shift.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Attitude vs No mercy beatn
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2007, 10:17:37 PM »
Vertigo!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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BBock727

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Re: Attitude vs No mercy beatn
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2007, 11:32:03 AM »
and I would say the opposite.  The attitude still goes down the lane quite a bit (although you can tweak the surface).  I would say the No Mercy would be a few boards stronger

JMORRIS

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Re: Attitude vs No mercy beatn
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2007, 11:59:30 AM »
I've only seen 2 people use the Beat'n and they both needed friction to get that ball to move.  

Having used and seen used, other balls with the R2S solid cover, I'd believe the Attitude would be stronger in oil then the Beat'N.

dpunky

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Re: Attitude vs No mercy beatn
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2007, 12:15:50 PM »
It really depends on the definition of "handle".  Balls an true heavy oil patterns will not be backend monsters unless there is some friction on the backend to cause the ball to change direction.  I have the No Mercy Beatn and have seen the Attitude Shift.  Both balls definitely need friction to move. If this exists, the Beatn has a better backend reaction.  I think that you need a ball with better midlane read, like the anger, or from storm the T-Road Solid.
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micbowl

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Re: Attitude vs No mercy beatn
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2007, 01:00:31 PM »
Lets use the Tournament of Champion shot of 50 ft of oil for this scenario. Which one would react better and by this I mean covering the most boards. I bowled on this pattern in the summer PBA experience league and couldn't get my ball to move more than 3-4 boards. I'm a tweener and used the Battle, Action, Special Agent and Paradigm. My Paradigm gave me the best reaction out of them all but had problem kicking out the ten pin. Even the crackers had problem on this pattern. Maybe with these new balls out now that it might solve the problem on this pattern.

Lefty210

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Re: Attitude vs No mercy beatn
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2007, 01:05:53 PM »
I agree with dpunky 100%, if you are looking for more midlane (an earlier read) then I would definitely say the T-Road Solid or the Anger....The Beat'n and Attitude both have a tendency to read a lil late.
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Dan Belcher

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Re: Attitude vs No mercy beatn
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2007, 01:12:49 PM »
quote:
Lets use the Tournament of Champion shot of 50 ft of oil for this scenario. Which one would react better and by this I mean covering the most boards. I bowled on this pattern in the summer PBA experience league and couldn't get my ball to move more than 3-4 boards. I'm a tweener and used the Battle, Action, Special Agent and Paradigm. My Paradigm gave me the best reaction out of them all but had problem kicking out the ten pin. Even the crackers had problem on this pattern. Maybe with these new balls out now that it might solve the problem on this pattern.
OK then, if that's the case, it's no longer a question of how "heavy" an amount of oil there is, it's about how LONG the oil pattern is.  BIG difference!!!  Also remember that covering the most boards is not indicative of the best ball reaction.  Nothing's going to hook the whole lane on a 50 foot flood.

When the pattern is heavier and the ball doesn't want to get into a roll, you need more surface (and possibly a particle loaded coverstock) to get the ball rolling earlier so that it can finish on the backend and generate entry angle.  In this case, you probably need a lower RG ball as well in general to get the ball to rev up earlier.

When the pattern is longer and not quite as heavy a volume of oil, there are two different ways to look at it (and it's going to depend on several factors, from the actual length of the pattern to other variables such as the lane surface, oil type, your release, etc.).  On something more like the Shark pattern where it's long but not super long, you generally need the ball to conserve energy through the (relatively) lower volume of oil in the heads and mids, but still grab the backends and generate angle.  However, if there isn't enough friction OR if the backend is too short to do this, you may need to do more of a hook-and-set reaction -- get the ball rolling earlier to generate some angle, and prevent it from overreacting on the backend.  Watch how the PBA guys play the 50 foot ToC shot -- they do not attempt to generate a skid/snap reaction at all.  Rather they let the ball start rolling in the midlane and work it back to the pocket.

(And as always, don't be afraid to move your feet and breakpoint to play the lanes more direct.  And the longer the oil pattern, the less time your ball has to make it back to the pocket, meaning you'll need to have a breakpoint closer to the headpin.)

So now, the question goes back to this:  do you need a ball for "heavy" oil, "long" oil, or both?

micbowl

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Re: Attitude vs No mercy beatn
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2007, 09:22:44 PM »
Dan you sound like a very experience and knowledgeable bowler and I really appreciate you taking the time to share it with us. I would like some advice on what kind of ball (name some) and drilling to handle long oil (not sure if its heavy also) like the Tournament of Champion. When I bowled on it during the summer hitting the pocket wasn't a problem. Carrying the ten pin was. Bowlers in that league were saying that if the ball off your hand didn't look like it was going to hit the pocket then it wasn't going to. Even crankers had problem with the corner pins. Thanking you in advance for any advice you have to offer.

Dan Belcher

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Re: Attitude vs No mercy beatn
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2007, 07:08:11 AM »
I haven't gotten a chance to bowl on the ToC shot, unfortunately.  However, I can certainly take a guess.  How do you roll the ball?  Do you know your rev rate, PAP, axis rotation, and axit tilt by any chance?  You may need to use less side rotation and more forward roll on the ToC shot to get the ball into its roll early and let it float back to the pocket.  Carry WILL be difficult, but you will probably leave fewer weak 10 pins than if you try to snap the ball into the pocket.  I'm guessing that you'll probably have your best results using something that wants to roll a little early anyway, but don't use too much surface.  Perhaps something like an Agent or Sure Fire.  Also, you may need to try to break the pattern down in your favor.  The oil is going to carry down some at first, then the heads will start to dry up a little.  Start with your feet a couple boards further right than you think you need to be in practice, and let the oil start to carry down just inside the line you'll be using in the first game or two.  This will give you a tiny bit of hold to the left hopefully.  As the pattern starts breaking down, you may need to start moving your feet left, but still play the same breakpoint.  Depending on how dry the lanes get, you may need to switch to something like a Shift to get the ball through the heads.  Don't use anything drilled too skid/snap however, you want a controllable reaction.  The key is to get the ball to face up to the pocket early.  You may have your best results hitting light in the swisher pocket and knocking pins around.  Just a guess though, again, because I've never bowled on this pattern.

Fluff E Bunnie

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Re: Attitude vs No mercy beatn
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2007, 07:53:51 AM »
quote:
Even the crackers had problem on this pattern.

Who you calling a cracker?

quote:

OK then, if that's the case, it's no longer a question of how "heavy" an amount of oil there is, it's about how LONG the oil pattern is.  BIG difference!!!


This is true.  I have stuff that will work better in the soup but won't last that many games on a longer but lighter pattern.

Dan Belcher

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Re: Attitude vs No mercy beatn
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2007, 08:12:47 AM »
quote:
quote:
Even the crackers had problem on this pattern.

Who you calling a cracker?
Thanks for pointing out that typo -- I missed it earlier.  Too funny.  

micbowl

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Re: Attitude vs No mercy beatn
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2007, 10:31:51 AM »
Typo. "Cranker" not "Cracker"

JMORRIS

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Re: Attitude vs No mercy beatn
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2007, 10:36:57 AM »
quote:
Typo. "Cranker" not "Cracker"


Great typo!  Thanks for the laugh!