Equipment Boards => Storm => Topic started by: JJ on July 26, 2011, 04:42:10 AM
Title: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: JJ on July 26, 2011, 04:42:10 AM
I have a Nano coming and it has a little more top weight that I wanted (3.09). Have any of you put Storms 3 1/2 X 5 X 3 (3 1/2 pin to pap, 5 mas bias to pap with a 3 inch pin buffer) on your Nano? What reaction would I get from this drill?
I bowl on a pretty heavy oil condition (41 feet) and don't have a lot of hand (285 and 16 1/2 mph). My favorite drilling is the pin next to the ring finger and the Mass Bias 3-4 inches right of my thumb hole. I am pretty sure my driller can't do that with this much top weight so I am looking for something that will work. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
The specs on the ball coming is 15.04 / 3.09 top / 2.5 - 3 inch pin.
JJ
Edited by JJ on 7/26/2011 at 12:49 PM
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: ccrider on July 26, 2011, 09:12:52 PM
I don't think three oz of top weight will cause a problem with that layout. Have your driller lay the ball out like you want and he will be able to get it in spec with a weight hole.
Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.
Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: jrs813 on July 27, 2011, 08:40:20 AM
my driller told me when drilling mine to try and avoid weight holes in nanos when ever possible.
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: ccrider on July 27, 2011, 09:27:11 AM
Why???
Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.
Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: Dan Belcher on July 27, 2011, 09:59:07 AM
It sounds like your driller has a misguided opinion.
(For the record, my Nano really came to life for me after I put a P3 extra hole in it)
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: jrs813 on July 28, 2011, 02:36:22 AM
i do not remember the reason of hand. i will ask him. he got the info from his friend who is on storm staff.
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: Russell on July 28, 2011, 05:11:04 AM
You need a new ball driller...the core for the Nano isn't magical...weight holes enhance or limit ball motion. If he/she doesn't understand how to utilize a weight hole you should have your stuff drilled elsewhere.
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: ccrider on July 28, 2011, 08:08:12 AM
+1
The only reason I try to avoid a weight hole is if I think k might try to sale the ball later.
Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.
Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: AlBundy33 on July 28, 2011, 10:00:32 AM
+1.....this whole topic has become bizarre because of the OP's 3 ounce top weight concern and not wanting to put a weight hole in the ball. Shoot, it's a minor miracle when I don't have to have a additional hole added to the ball.
Seems to me that you should have saved a few bucks and gotten yourself a Roto Grip Outlaw (which is almost as strong as the Nano from what I've been hearing) to potentially butcher.
"Pretty women make us buy beer, ugly women make us drink beer"
Edited by AlBundy33 on 7/28/2011 at 10:02 AM
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: completebowler on July 29, 2011, 06:03:04 AM
I agree completely. Crazy what some people come up with. As to the OP...3 oz. of top is not much at all. Should be able to use any layout you like.
ALL STAR BOWLING & TROPHY LANGAN'S ALL STAR LANES IBPSIA MEMBER WALLED LAKE MI
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: jrs813 on July 29, 2011, 07:13:45 AM
my driller is fine. he knows how to use weight holes just fine this was merely a suggestion he brought up while drilling my nano and it stuck in my head. it came from a touring staffer. that he is best friends with and bowls regionals with. i called him this morning left voice mail but i think he is on his way to a regional.
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: tdub36tjt on July 29, 2011, 11:21:27 AM
Maybe he needs a new best friend instead then......jk....but seriously there is no reason to not use a weight hole in a Nano...
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: Mr Straight Ball on July 29, 2011, 11:40:57 AM
JJ,
To open my thoughts, 41' is not long, I bowl at a house that runs a 43' pattern and most tournaments run shots between 35-41. With that said, remember the Nano is a STRONG rock and placing the pin 3 ½" from your pap could be overkill. There are a lot of bowlers who only see the ball down the lane and when it does not hook, they assume the shot is tight. What happens to a lot of us is we drill the ball so strong that it starts up and stops before it rolls through where we are looking. I'd steer you towards the 4 x 4 x 2 layout over the 3.5 x 5 x 3 (if you want to drill from the sheet), the 4 x 4 x 2 layout gives you more looks with the ball.
I do have a Nano drilled weaker than what you're thinking as my rev rate hoovers around 500 rpm and I throw it 18+ mph. This ball is like no other as it reacts like it has teeth. For me, this ball shines of course when the heads are tight and/or when the back ends are tighter. It is fun watching this ball blow a pattern open. Good luck with yours.
P.S. A top weight of 3oz is normal
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Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: JJ on July 29, 2011, 02:17:51 PM
Thanks for all the replies and help guys.
JJ
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on July 30, 2011, 03:39:55 PM
As it was already said, that is just absurd. Mine is 35* 4 1/4 35* with a P3 hole and it does it's job on true long/heavy oil.
I stone 8s and 9s like its cool... YouTube.com/C6evolution2008
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: tommygn on August 02, 2011, 08:13:04 AM
For all the guys telling the original poster to go to a new pro shop;
This could be one of the reasons why the pro shop didn't want to use an x hole. I know for myself, the HD core becomes WAY TOO strong when I use drillings that need extra holes. Often the ball is too strong, and hooks out too soon, or when enough oil is on the lane, it becomes too uncontrollable down lane. Combined with the strongest cover ever on a bowling ball out of Utah, the pro shop guy might know what he is talking about.
I am not saying to never use an x hole with this weight block, but the fact remains, with the strength of the ball, a lot of times, you do not need it.
Tommy Gollick Storm Regional/Pro Shop staff Red Crown Pro Shop Harrisburg, PA stormbowling.com
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: ccrider on August 02, 2011, 03:47:07 PM
Tommy, I do not claim to be a no it all. However, it is obvious that you do not know much at all about weight holes. You can use them to increase or decrease hook, depending on where you place them in relation to your axis point.
Thus, drilling a hole does not mean that the ball will necessarily hook more. In fact, the hole can make the ball hook less.
I don't think any knowledgable people disagree with this, although there may be some dispute about where to place the hole to obtain maximum or minimum "hook" for lack of a better term. It may be better to say earlier or later roll.
Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.
Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: tommygn on August 03, 2011, 06:42:06 AM
I know PLEANTY about balance holes, and how to use them (take a second to read my review on the Anarchy, where I discuss the use of balance holes and relation to spin times).
The point is, WHY spend the money on the strongest cover stock produced to date, and turn it into a dry lane ball by reducing the flare and hook potential? There are numerous bowling balls out there that this can be accomplished with, and see better results, because that is what the ball is intended for.
It is fairly safe to say, that more often than not, the use of a balance hole is to increase dynamics in weaker balls, to make them stronger, and perform beyond the design of the ball. When drilling a ball that fits into USBC specifications without the use of a balance hole, this allows for the pro shop then to tweak the desired reaction after the bowler has thrown the ball, and fine tune it to his needs (often cover preparation is the first step). If you start with a big balance hole just to get the ball legal, you are now limited to what you can do with alterations of motion.
My point is, his pro shop operator may know a little more about the conditions he is bowling on, and the bowlers tendencies, more so than you or I, as I know I have never seen this guy bowl (have you?), or know what surface he is bowling on, or the volume of oil, or thickness of oil, shape of oil pattern, etc... It is very unfair for people to jump on a pro shop before knowing all the facts.
Tommy Gollick Storm Regional/Pro Shop staff Red Crown Pro Shop Harrisburg, PA stormbowling.com
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: tommygn on August 03, 2011, 07:58:27 AM
Above is a link to the ball motion study performed by USBC. On page 13 of the study, the diagram shows the most important, to least important factors of ball motion. Ball motion leads to entry angle, thus proper pin carry. Notice number one on the list at above 800 points is SR-Ra value of the cover stock. What the motion study shows, is cover material and cover preparation SIGNIFICANLTY out weights ball motion over ALL other factors. Makes for some really good reading if you have the time.
Tommy Gollick Storm Regional/Pro Shop staff Red Crown Pro Shop Harrisburg, PA stormbowling.com
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: ccrider on August 03, 2011, 09:01:51 AM
If your statement about cover and motion is correct placing a weight hole in a nano is not going to turn it into a dry lane ball. The money is spent; be bought the ball. So you are now back to the question that he posed-- how do I deal with three ounces of fop weight?
If you are saying that you can not make the nano stronger by use of a weight hole, the literature does not support your position. Last, if the nano is not the right ball for the condition, when considering all other relevant factors, his ball driller should be telling him that instead some nonsense about the top weight.
Surely you recognize this.
Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.
Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: tommygn on August 03, 2011, 09:56:38 AM
ccrider,
Clearly you are trying to be argumentative, and "reading into" what I am writing and making it personal, instead of reading what I am writing. That's fine, I am not going to get into a debate with you over semantics.
The point is, do you have a personal knowledge of the pro shop that this gentleman gets his bowling balls drilled at? Do you have personal knowledge of this particular bowler? I asked you that before, and you didn't respond. If you do, then maybe you can enlighten us all on why you agreed with another poster that he should go to a different pro shop to have his bowling ball drilled because you clearly know more about the bowlers situation than any one else.
Tommy Gollick Storm Regional/Pro Shop staff Red Crown Pro Shop Harrisburg, PA stormbowling.com
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: ccrider on August 03, 2011, 02:45:05 PM
Tommy,
I reread both your post and mine to make sure I understood and responded to what you posted, and to see if I had made any personal attack. I don't see a personal attack on you. In fact I agree with most of what you said.
Why don't you respond to what I said, which has nothing to do with you personally. Do you seriously contend that placing a weight hole in a Nano will make it a dry lane ball? I bet you don't, even though you made that statement.
If the Nano is in fact the right ball for the condition that the guy is bowling on, the weight hole can be used to inhance the ball motion or can be placed in a neutral position. Otherwise, the guy needs to be directed to the correct ball instead of being told some nonsensical statement about the top weight and weight holes. Do you agree or disagree with this statement? I think that the proshop/ball driller has an obligation to his customer to shoot him straight and give cogent direction about ball choices.
Does my lack of knowledge about the intimate details of the proshop involved make the foregoing statements any less true or accurate. I think not, but if you disagree, tell me how.
Last, tell me how any of this is "personal" or argumentative. Except for the normative statements above, it is factual based on my limited knowledge and experience. If I have misstated facts, let me know. I promise, I will not take it personal. I don't see how one can seriously argue about any of the facts that I have stated as most solid pro shop operators would agree with the facts stated.
Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.
Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: kidlost2000 on August 03, 2011, 08:52:04 PM
Lay the ball out the way you listed you want it and check the weights. From there you can decide if a weight hole will be enough to make it legal or if the ball layout needs to be modified. Likely moving the MB closer to your thumb a little till the ball gets close enough to be drilled and any weights corrected with a weight hole. Whomever drills your ball probably already knows this. Weights holes will not hurt anything. Only a lack of proper use. Even then it would still not hurt the balls reaction to the point of being a disappointment.
Also if it matters, the only time the ball will be checked for correct static weight is if you bowl a PBA regional, or at USBC/Nationals. Other wise static weight don't matter.
"Get out of bowling what you want because that is all there is."
Edited by kidlost2000 on 8/4/2011 at 4:00 AM
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: avabob on August 06, 2011, 04:15:15 PM
I regularly use weight holes in balls, sometimes to tweak the reaction, and sometimes to make the statics legal. A weight hole can have some impact on the shape of the breakpoint, but the effect is very marginal on asymetric balls with strong mass bias. The only time I use a weight hole to impact the reaction is on symetrical balls. I will put a hole on my PAP to get a smoother earlier reaction and use a weight hole down below the PAP to enhance the dynamics and flare.I would drill the Nano with the pin up at about 5 inches to PAP. It is a very strong heavy rolling ball and such a layout will not weaken your reaction on longer patterns.
By the way I have very similar rev rate and speed to you. I am about 17.3 at 15 feet, and about 275-300 revs.
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: Pat Patterson on August 06, 2011, 09:42:04 PM
JJ,
I am assuming you have perused the Storm website for drilling information on the Virtual Gravity Nano? If not, here is the link:
The layout for which you are looking for (3-1/2" x 5" x 3") seems appropriate for the specifications you have listed in your post. I would recommend drilling it this way without the weight hole first and see if it is satisfactory for what you are trying to accomplish. If not, then utilizing the MoRich Gradient Line/Balance Hole Technique will prove helpful in helping you decide where the best location for the weight hole should be placed for your ultimate result.
Title: Re: Drilling question for Nano.
Post by: JJ on August 07, 2011, 11:32:19 AM
We went with the pin above the ring finger and the mass bias 3 inches right of the center of my thumb. My driller had to drill the fingers real deep and put a weight hole in the p-3 area. Ball has some nice pop in the back end.