Author Topic: Ethical dilemma (Read 10717 times)

riggs · « **on:** February 22, 2011, 11:13:50 PM »

I am thinking it is wrong to use my new VIRTUAL GRAVITY NANOs in any competition until March 1, when they become available to the public.

You all agree?

PBA rules prohibit the use of any ball until after its release date of availability for PBA members. (They were OK for the USBC Masters.)

The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/

Locke · « **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2011, 07:18:08 AM »

Personally I would have no problem using them. It is just another ball anyways. And by waiting until March 1 how many more people would you have throwing it against you in comp? 1 maybe 2? If you feel a ball gives you such a big advantage that you feel guilty throwing it before others can get their hands on it, shouldn't you think about the idea that maybe the ball is just too good and gives you an unfair advantage all around? A ball is a ball, scoring comes from how you use a ball not the ball. I promise there are no magical 300 faeries in the ball or something. If you throw a big game with it, you did just that, YOU threw a big game.

Always be sincere, even when you don't mean it

Cobalt Bomb · « **Reply #2 on:** February 23, 2011, 07:38:30 AM »

Riggs, I have a somewhat different take on this than you do. Used to be in the PBA the ball had to be out and AVAILABLE in sufficient quantity for ALL the members before it could be used in competition. Now, staff players and those given balls by the reps can get them usually a week or 2 before the other members, and other members can get them a week or so before the general public.

I understand that the ball companies do this to generate "buzz" and getting the ball in the hands of better bowlers first can help demonstrate the product.

I recently used a Rising Star in a local tournament, a few days prior to its public release, took 4th place. There are certainly balls out there that hook more, just seemed to match up pretty well to the condition. The way I look at it is that its one of the perks of being a PBA member.

With that being said, most new balls are "just another ball" unless you are talking about something as revolutionary as the Black Hammer or Excalibur, and I would not make a big deal about whether someone was using a new ball or not. Storm obviously wants you to use the ball or you wouldn't have it. Go ahead and use it.

Joe

Edited by Cobalt Bomb on 2/23/2011 at 8:39 AM

riggs · « **Reply #3 on:** February 23, 2011, 07:50:28 AM »

Locke especially you are completely missing the point. It is not the real-world impact -- I'm one of those who think that ball technology has essentially peaked and don't think there would be any huge advantage in using the NANO. I don't think we'll ever see anything like the XCALIBUR again.

This is a matter of principal and doing the right thing and being a sportsman. I am 100 percent sincere with this. If you don't get any of that you clearly are NOT a sportsman.

The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/

Edited by riggs on 2/23/2011 at 8:50 AM

3835 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2011, 08:13:26 AM »

I see your point completely Riggs. Using a product early may give you an advantage. However, that is a PBA rule and I am not aware of if this is a USBC rule or not, but I assume not.

As a PBA member, you are and should be held to a higher standard than your house bowler, because you are a Professional. Being a professional sometimes means going beyond the normal realm of what a normal person would do.

Let us know what you decide, but, if you do not compete in any PBA competition, I could see someone making the case that they could use the ball legally, but ethically, the picture may be greyer.

3835

scotts33 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2011, 08:14:48 AM »

Jeff,

Are we talking USBC or PBA? I've seen many staffers get seed balls and use them before the release date on USBC sanctioned leagues. I've always actually wondered how they could count scores when the ball hasn't been released to the public? Say you shoot a 300 in your Thurs. night Sport league at 10 Pin? How does that work?

Scott

300 dan · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2011, 08:15:38 AM »

Riggs, I have met and bowled against you in a few tournamnets. Meeting and talking with you I think it is ethical and I respect you for feeling the way you do about using the NANO prior to release to the public. I agree with you on this topic look forward to your review when you write it.

Good luck and good bowling to all...

Cobalt Bomb · « **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2011, 08:34:55 AM »

I understand your point, and to an extent, I agree with it. You can, however, take it a step further and say you should be using an alley ball, since some bowlers can't afford their own ball. In your typical league or local competition, I just don't see using a new ball as that big of a deal.

In my opinion, the bigger "injustice"(and I use that term very loosely) is that staff players and those given a ball by a company rep, can get a new ball for use in PBA competition before the general membership. Under those circumstances, people are bowling for a living and at that talent level, a very small equipment advantage can mean the difference between winning an event and not. Since I don't make my living bowling this is not a big deal to me in the grand scheme of things.

I applaud you for standing up for your convictions, though. It certainly can't hurt to wait a couple of weeks to use the ball. I just don't think its that big of a deal, and anyone that complains about it would be complaining about something else. It was always my impression that the very reason you have that ball early is to stir up interest for the company by using it.

BTW: Keep up the good work on your reviews.

riggs wrote on 2/23/2011 8:50 AM:
Locke especially you are completely missing the point. It is not the real-world impact -- I'm one of those who think that ball technology has essentially peaked and don't think there would be any huge advantage in using the NANO. I don't think we'll ever see anything like the XCALIBUR again.

This is a matter of principal and doing the right thing and being a sportsman. I am 100 percent sincere with this. If you don't get any of that you clearly are NOT a sportsman.

The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/

Edited by riggs on 2/23/2011 at 8:50 AM

riggs · « **Reply #8 on:** February 23, 2011, 08:57:53 AM »

PBA has a specific rule on new balls -- none can be used until they are available to the membership and PBA keeps a list of "eligibility" dates for balls.

At the Masters, for example, anyone could walk out to the truck and purchase a NANO and drill it.

USBC has no rule, which makes using it in non-PBA USBC competition a decision that is purely ethical.

The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/

ToiletLogCore · « **Reply #9 on:** February 23, 2011, 09:13:48 AM »

If you really feel you are going to lose sleep over this then don't use it. Also you should probably go to confession for even thinking about using it.

Good luck with your decision I hope it doesn't haunt you for the rest of your life.

You've just been handed a little TLC

Good Times Good Times · « **Reply #10 on:** February 23, 2011, 09:26:10 AM »

ToiletLogCore wrote on 2/23/2011 10:13 AM:If you really feel you are going to lose sleep over this then don't use it. Also you should probably go to confession for even thinking about using it.

Good luck with your decision I hope it doesn't haunt you for the rest of your life.

You've just been handed a little TLC

This is so true! I don't think you'll burn in hell Riggs for it

GetOffMe10Pin

-"If you want to make enemies, try to change something." - Woodrow Wilson

Cobalt Bomb · « **Reply #11 on:** February 23, 2011, 09:30:57 AM »

Jeff, perhaps at the Masters, it was possible for a PBA member to go on the truck and actually purchase a ball. I wasn't there. In my experience, since the "new" PBA, it was not possible for me as a non-staff player to get a ball off the truck unless given a slip from a rep. If this has changed in the last 2 years since I bowled a national event, I will stand corrected. If you mean by "available to the membership" that I could get it thru a rep, well that rep has to want to give me one. Under the "old" PBA, balls were not cleared until all the members could have purchased and had shipped to them the balls in question, and any member could buy off "the truck". I have bowled against staff players in PBA Regional events using equipment that is not available to me (a Full Member) at that particular time. Even if the balls are in transit, they are not available for me to use. It's not all that big of a deal to me, but facts are facts.

I look at it this way: whatever a staff player did to earn his position, he earned it. If I want to be a staff player and have those perks I need to earn it thru performance and by giving that company value. If anything, my beef would be with the PBA.

I don't want you to take this the wrong way, Jeff. I think you're doing a good thing. If anything, perhaps the USBC should not clear the balls for anything other than PBA events until the balls are available to the public. My guess is, if they thought it was a big deal, they would.

riggs wrote on 2/23/2011 9:57 AM:
PBA has a specific rule on new balls -- none can be used until they are available to the membership and PBA keeps a list of "eligibility" dates for balls.

At the Masters, for example, anyone could walk out to the truck and purchase a NANO and drill it.

USBC has no rule, which makes using it in non-PBA USBC competition a decision that is purely ethical.

The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/

jbungard · « **Reply #12 on:** February 23, 2011, 09:34:17 AM »

Good subject and good discussion,

I have no problem with you or anyone else using a ball before its release date as long as the ball is listed on the USBC approved list. By showing up on the approved list, your Nano meets the same standards as all other new balls must meet. You have earned a staff position with Storm based on your ability, character and perceived ability to impact sales by your use of their equipment in competition, league and tournament play.

In the Phoenix area, we have a number of professional and amateur bowlers on ball staffs, as well as some of the larger, well established pro shops. I see them rolling the Alpha Max, Mission Domination/$250K, etc. and have no problem with their use. I'm happy they use them as I have an opportunity to see how the ball rolls and transitions in considering if they are on my radar for a future purchase. I don't see the new ball as an inherent advantage. I know my equipment; how it's going to react, how it's going to transition, and where it fits in my bag. In my mind, this offsets the potential advantage of any new/fresh surface ball.

Storm is counting on you to use their balls, score well with them, and favorably impact public opinion regarding their new release. By not using their equipment as soon as it's available and USBC approved, you're not doing all you can in fulfilling your role with them.

One mans opinion

MoRich Mania, RipR, Craze, Perpetual Motion, MOjave
LM Black Pearl, Xtreme Damage, The New Standard, MoRich Spare Ball

Daleswmn · « **Reply #13 on:** February 23, 2011, 10:00:07 AM »

Is just being available enough? How long does it take you to evaluate a new ball where you are confortable in using it and or write a review on it?

riggs wrote on 2/23/2011 9:57 AM:
PBA has a specific rule on new balls -- none can be used until they are available to the membership and PBA keeps a list of "eligibility" dates for balls.

At the Masters, for example, anyone could walk out to the truck and purchase a NANO and drill it.

USBC has no rule, which makes using it in non-PBA USBC competition a decision that is purely ethical.

The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/

riggs · « **Reply #14 on:** February 23, 2011, 10:44:26 AM »

I have not bowled a PBA TOUR event since 2002 so I was not aware of how it is with the Truck out there now.

Personally, I don't think anyone should be able to use any ball in any competition until it has become available for purchase by anyone else bowling in that competition. This is simple fairness. Being "better" (on staff) shouldn't enable me or anyone else to get a POTENTIAL advantage in any competition.

If everyone at the Masters couldn't go to the Truck and buy a NANO then no one should have been able to use it, IMO. The only advantage staff should give is getting breaks on equipment, not getting it before the public can.

FYI: I've been saying for some time that no ball introduced after the start of the USBC Open Championships should be able to be used by anyone in the tournament. It's the same principal.

Ball tech has pretty much peaked, IMO, but what if there is another XCALIBUR and some get to use it at USBC OC and others don't?

The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/

Author Topic: Ethical dilemma (Read 10717 times)

riggs

Ethical dilemma

Locke

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Cobalt Bomb

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riggs

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3835

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scotts33

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300 dan

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Cobalt Bomb

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riggs

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ToiletLogCore

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Good Times Good Times

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Cobalt Bomb

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jbungard

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Daleswmn

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riggs

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