win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Flip block on the bottom of weight block versus the Top  (Read 9456 times)

LuckyLefty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17348
Flip block on the bottom of weight block versus the Top
« on: April 09, 2013, 11:17:38 PM »
Storm has many balls with weight blocks that they have put the flip block at the top of the core, then they will take the same core and flip it so that the flip is on the bottom of the core for another ball in their lines.

What are the expectations of this flip of the cores.  Expectations for flip block on the top?  Expectations for flip block on the bottom?

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I just reused a Hot Wire with the flip block on the bottom ....smooth and medium strength.
http://www.stormbowling.com/products/balls/classic/hot-wire?search=&exclusiveClassic=false
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 11:19:51 PM by LuckyLefty »
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

 

LuckyLefty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17348
Re: Flip block on the bottom of weight block versus the Top
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2013, 07:34:43 PM »
TT helps...

Regards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

DP3

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6093
Re: Flip block on the bottom of weight block versus the Top
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2013, 09:07:49 PM »
The term flip block is pure marketing as "flip" is purely components of axis rotation, cover stock, and friction.  They are called "flip blocks" because they change the rg and diff numbers to beef up the flare potential of the core which in some cases, depending on the cover stock can make a ball hook a bit more on the back.  The usual cases being a flip block on top of the core raises the rg and diff.  A single block on the bottom lowers the rg and increases the diff most of the time.  Dual blocks usually heighten the core overall and can increase the diff or balance out core diff numbers to a medium range.

Jesse James

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3617
Re: Flip block on the bottom of weight block versus the Top
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2013, 08:43:49 AM »
Hey DP3,

What are the advantages to lowering the Rg but raising the differential?

I thought that lower RG balls tended to rev more on the back....yes/no?
Some days you're the bug....some days you're the windshield...that's bowling!

LuckyLefty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17348
Re: Flip block on the bottom of weight block versus the Top
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2013, 10:01:35 AM »
So DP3 a flip block on the bottom supplying lower rg and higher diff rolls different from the flip block on the top in what way?

Regards,

Luckylefty
PS same coverstock...Thanks
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

DP3

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6093
Re: Flip block on the bottom of weight block versus the Top
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2013, 11:14:54 AM »
Flip block on the top brings more weight to the surface of the ball thus raising the r.g and increasing the diff so theoretically, same cover stock you'll see more length with a fast response to friction. With a block on the bottom to lower the RG and increase the diff, you'll see more flare and a stronger more continuous move.

Think like this, same coverstock...

Fired Up (top flip block, higher RG, quick response on the back)
Vs.
Spitfire (bottom flip block, lower RG, rounder reaction shape but maybe 2-3 boards more aggressive overall due to starting up earlier.)

Rightycomplex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1250
Re: Flip block on the bottom of weight block versus the Top
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2013, 11:28:41 AM »
To answer Jesse,

 Lowering the rg gets the core rolling earlier. When we drill a ball, we are taking from the core and in fact lowering and/or raising the rg values and diff. Lower rg/ high diff think strong drilling (like a Double Thumb) and vice versa.

LL,

yes. same cover, different block positionings, will yield different reaction shapes. To me, however,  this will not make a drastic change in the amount of boards covered, maybe a few boards difference. Its almost like drilling two of the same balls one pin up and pin down. You are changing the values in different ways.
James C. Jones
Orbdrillers Pro Shop Holiday Bowl
Chester, Va.

Hammer Regional/Amateur Staff Member

www.facebook.com/orbdrillers
Orbdrillers.com
Hammerbowling.com

DP3

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6093
Re: Flip block on the bottom of weight block versus the Top
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2013, 11:29:38 AM »
Hey DP3,

What are the advantages to lowering the Rg but raising the differential?

I thought that lower RG balls tended to rev more on the back....yes/no?

Lower RG balls rev earlier, depending on how strong the cover is, you can have a low reg high differential ball that is super strong on the back end (Agent, Marvel Pearl). You can also have low RG and high diff that's earlier and rounder (Special Agent, Marvel).

Lesson here is, cover stock prep and type is way more of a factor in the reaction shape of a ball than the core shape.  Core numbers, flip blocks, RG and differential are drillers tools that open up options for a wider range of reactions to enhance the ball's already natural characteristics.

This is why I don't subscribe to the theory of using the same layouts on every type of ball.  For instance, a ball like the tropical heat with a stacked 4x4 leverage drill may give you big angle down the lane because of the medium-high reg and the medium-medium/low diff.  It may be the perfect layout to maximize the reaction based on the maximum capabilities of the ball's numbers and cover strength.

Take that same layout and put it in a Marvel Pearl with a much stronger cover, lower rg, and higher diff, and you won't see that same sharp angle down the lane. You'll more likely see an earlier rounder shape. 

You may have some people that disagree with me, but to me I subscribe to the theory of drilling according to core numbers and not core shape/flip block/gimmick marketing.  Once you understand the correlation between what core numbers do and how layouts can enhance or weaken them, I can guarantee that you'll never drill a ball again that "doesn't do what you drilled it to do".

Impending Doom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6288
Re: Flip block on the bottom of weight block versus the Top
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2013, 11:52:22 AM »
If I may jump in here...

Lowering the RG and raising the diff will usually be accompanied by a duller cover. One of the most obvious ones was the FireStorm, and the ForestFireStorm. Firestorm was flippy, ForestFire was more rolly. It'll read the lane sooner and be stronger in the oil.

Juggernaut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6498
  • Former good bowler, now 3 games a week house hack.
Re: Flip block on the bottom of weight block versus the Top
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2013, 02:17:27 PM »
LL,

 In a real world of having thrown several Storm balls in the past, I have noticed a difference for me in the "flip block" placement.

 It always seemed that the balls with cores that had it placed toward the "top" gave me a longer, more backended look, while those with it placed toward the "bottom" tended to start earlier for me, and gave me a smoother look.
Learn to laugh, and love, and smile, cause we’re only here for a little while.

LuckyLefty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17348
Re: Flip block on the bottom of weight block versus the Top
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2013, 04:32:46 PM »
this a great set of threads and comments by all the posters.

I am seeing exactly as describer  with my Hot Wire.  Flip block on the bottom even and continuous on this shot versus other traditional flip block on the tops whih snap too much for me.

This even with pin next or up from ring.  Usually a big move for me!

Of course the smooth reacting Accutread may be part of the equation.

Regards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Rightycomplex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1250
Re: Flip block on the bottom of weight block versus the Top
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2013, 08:39:53 PM »
Hey DP3,

What are the advantages to lowering the Rg but raising the differential?

I thought that lower RG balls tended to rev more on the back....yes/no?

Lower RG balls rev earlier, depending on how strong the cover is, you can have a low reg high differential ball that is super strong on the back end (Agent, Marvel Pearl). You can also have low RG and high diff that's earlier and rounder (Special Agent, Marvel).

Lesson here is, cover stock prep and type is way more of a factor in the reaction shape of a ball than the core shape.  Core numbers, flip blocks, RG and differential are drillers tools that open up options for a wider range of reactions to enhance the ball's already natural characteristics.

This is why I don't subscribe to the theory of using the same layouts on every type of ball.  For instance, a ball like the tropical heat with a stacked 4x4 leverage drill may give you big angle down the lane because of the medium-high reg and the medium-medium/low diff.  It may be the perfect layout to maximize the reaction based on the maximum capabilities of the ball's numbers and cover strength.

Take that same layout and put it in a Marvel Pearl with a much stronger cover, lower rg, and higher diff, and you won't see that same sharp angle down the lane. You'll more likely see an earlier rounder shape. 

You may have some people that disagree with me, but to me I subscribe to the theory of drilling according to core numbers and not core shape/flip block/gimmick marketing.  Once you understand the correlation between what core numbers do and how layouts can enhance or weaken them, I can guarantee that you'll never drill a ball again that "doesn't do what you drilled it to do".

Couldnt have said it better myself. too much emphasis is put on the ball and not the bowler, and trust me, it's really easy to do. For example to what DP3 is saying, in my area (as most), oil is a scarcity. I have 3 asyms that rarely see action because on THS, I see early and not very much. however on heavy sport patterns, the balls get sideways. Symmetricals roll better on the avg and heavier THS and an arsenal of  Tropical Heat's can more than surfice. So my advice, if a ball rolls well for you, do some research and buy balls that fit into that description.
James C. Jones
Orbdrillers Pro Shop Holiday Bowl
Chester, Va.

Hammer Regional/Amateur Staff Member

www.facebook.com/orbdrillers
Orbdrillers.com
Hammerbowling.com

LuckyLefty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17348
Re: Flip block on the bottom of weight block versus the Top
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2013, 09:10:18 PM »
Just along the lines of taking the numbers.

I tend to drill weak balls strong and strong balls weak.

I find when I do weak balls weak they only cover very very rare and hooky conditions.  Therefore stronger drillings often keep many balls in the usable range when the core numbers are weaker. 

The opposite on real strong core balls.  Farther pin positions often make them workable for me.

Regards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

tommygn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 694
Re: Flip block on the bottom of weight block versus the Top
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2013, 10:10:50 AM »
LL,

 In a real world of having thrown several Storm balls in the past, I have noticed a difference for me in the "flip block" placement.

 It always seemed that the balls with cores that had it placed toward the "top" gave me a longer, more backended look, while those with it placed toward the "bottom" tended to start earlier for me, and gave me a smoother look.

When the flip block is on top, it gets "drilled into" with drillings that have the pin around the fingers. This alters the shape of the core more, and can vary the reaction shape very much so. As someone else noted earlier about the Fired Up and the Spitfire, you could really drill out the diff on the Fire Up because the flip block reduces its affect on gyration of the core because you are no lowering the "weight" of the flip block, hence more skid snap because less differential. With the block on the bottom like the SpitFire, you are not touching that flip block and the integrity of the block remains, and allows the core to do closer to what the intended design was for, allowing for more flare and thus your earlier smoother reaction.
God creates us with a blank canvas, and the "picture" we paint is up to us. Paint a picture you like and love!

tommygn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 694
Re: Flip block on the bottom of weight block versus the Top
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2013, 10:15:00 AM »
Just along the lines of taking the numbers.

I tend to drill weak balls strong and strong balls weak.

I find when I do weak balls weak they only cover very very rare and hooky conditions.  Therefore stronger drillings often keep many balls in the usable range when the core numbers are weaker. 

The opposite on real strong core balls.  Farther pin positions often make them workable for me.

Regards,

Luckylefty

That's fine if you bowl on mostly medium conditions. But if you encounter real heavy oil(not just long oil), the weaker drillings on the strong balls won't allow for enough flare to get the ball into the roll quick enough and slow down properly. If bowling on true dry lanes, the strong drilling on a weak ball doesn't allow for the ball to push far enough, and the ball slows down too soon.
God creates us with a blank canvas, and the "picture" we paint is up to us. Paint a picture you like and love!