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Author Topic: HyRoad OOB surface  (Read 6808 times)

Phoneman

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HyRoad OOB surface
« on: April 08, 2009, 11:10:40 PM »
What is the surface OOB?  I see it is 1500 grit polished but what is that equal to in Abralon or scotchbright color?

 

tomgriffin

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Re: HyRoad OOB surface
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2009, 07:23:35 AM »
Your best bet at matching the OOB is by using a red scotch-brite pad and then finish it with Storm Step 2 compound. This is what gives the 1500 polish OOB finish carried on both Storm and Rotogrip pearl equipment. You can get it here:

http://www.buddiesproshop.com/product/2687/Storm_Finishing_System_-_Step_Two_-_Quart_-_Limited_Supplies.htm

If it's not an option to get a bottle of the Storm Step 2 compound (its pretty expensive) - go out and get a gray scotch-brite pad. If the surface is really dinged you're also going to want a red scotch-brite pad. And if you want to be as close as possible to the OOB without getting the compound, pickup a white scotch-brite pad as well.

Start with the red scotch-brite pad. Work until most of the track is removed. Make sure you do all six sides evenly on low speed. Switch to the green scotch-brite and repeat (all six sides). This brings the ball to around 600 grit. Now use the gray scotch brite pad which puts it at about 1000. You can stop now and apply the polish and achieve a 1000 polish finish, or continue with the white scotch-brite which would bring the surface to around 1300. Polish on top of the white scotch-brite is as close as you're going to get.

When cutting using scotch-brite

1. Low spinner speed
2. Make sure the scotch-brite is wet. Before you use them, whack them against something to get any ball dust out of them.
3. All six sides of the ball!

When polishing:

4. Apply a SMALL amount of polish (silver dollar size dollop is probably more than enough)
5. Rub it into the ball before you start spinning. Let it dry for a minute (it should develop a haze)
6. Spin on high and use pressure to work the polish into the ball. You should feel heat.
7. All six sides of the ball!

Scotch-brite is an extremely cheap alternative to abralon. Get it here:

http://www.buddiesproshop.com/product/2856/3M_Scotch_Brite_-_Full_Sheet.htm

Even though it's not listed on the page, they have the white scotch-brite - it's in the pull-down menu.

Phoneman

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Re: HyRoad OOB surface
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2009, 07:26:35 AM »
Thanks.

I have access to all the scotch bright pads and the compound thru my pro shop.  He lets me do what I want to my equipment for no charge since I help out around the shop some and he is a friend.  He probably knew the answer but I wont see him agian till tomorrow night so I thought I would ask here.

tomgriffin

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Re: HyRoad OOB surface
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2009, 07:54:35 AM »
That's an awesome arrangement. I'm stuck with a spinner down my basement. Would love to have access to a press!

charlest

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Re: HyRoad OOB surface
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2009, 12:33:50 PM »
nice answer, TomG.
(Glad you like to type. )
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tomgriffin

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Re: HyRoad OOB surface
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2009, 12:58:14 PM »
It's my standard copy and paste answer to 1500 OOB. I have probably pasted it 15 times now

charlest

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Re: HyRoad OOB surface
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2009, 01:18:51 PM »
quote:
It's my standard copy and paste answer to 1500 OOB. I have probably pasted it 15 times now


FYI There is an Abralon "type" of answer for this. Valentino carries a P3000 grit pad, that while simialr to Abralon seems to be superior to it. In any case, P3000 = 1500 grit US, the base for Storm's and other manufacturer's polished pearls. One could, theoretically, use the P3000 Valentino pad and apply a non-abrasive polish like their Snake Oil or Lanemasters Factory Finish polish. That should achieve this finish also.

The only reason I like this scenario better is there are fewer variables such as the one that requires the proper application of amount, pressure and time to get Step 2 frm 320 grit to 1500 grit. The grey pad also requires an abrasive polish and the "right" amount, pressure and time. So many variables in all these.
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tomgriffin

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Re: HyRoad OOB surface
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2009, 01:21:27 PM »
I prefer to just use Storm Step 2 :-) Have had uniform results over many applications.

Chubbs

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Re: HyRoad OOB surface
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2009, 01:41:14 PM »
Here's a response directly from Storm when I asked them about restoring OOB finish on their stuff with Abralon pads.  Enjoy!

Thank you for contacting us with your concern. As far as ball reaction is concerned, we have several recommendations to maintain ball performance and life, but the primary area of concern is with the surface topography of the ball. As a quick over-view, surface topography in the bowling industry has been measured with specific ‘Ra’ and ‘Rs’ standards. These values directly relate to how aggressive the coverstock is and how much friction the coverstock can generate. The Ra value measuring the standard deviations above or below the surface of the ball. For example, a series of high peaks and low valleys would be measured with an extremely high Ra value. Likewise, the great plains with a relatively smooth landscape and rolling hills would have a low Ra value. Rs isn’t as important, but by definition is the average distance between each individual peaks.

 

The reason these numbers are important is because of the correlation between ball reaction and high Ra and Rs values. Essentially, the greater the Ra and Rs number, the more friction the coverstock can generate. The more friction the coverstock can generate, the greater hook potential the ball will have. What happens when a ball dies is the coverstock has lost the surface deviations originally found on the ball from the out of box finish. These deviations (high Ra and Rs numbers) are created in our finishing and rounding process by creating deep grooves, cuts, and scars on the surface of ball. Later, when the ball is finished, these rough surface deviations are smoothed and ‘polished’ but they aren’t completely removed. If you were to then examine the coverstock on a micron level, the steep peaks and valleys would still be on the surface of the ball, but they would be rounded. This creates the type of ball motion where the ball will still skid through the heads and midlanes cleanly, but still have a tremendous amount of friction generation capabilities as the ball enters the buff or exists the pattern.

 

However, as the ball encounters normal use, these peaks slowly flatten and the valleys collapse. If measured after normal use, the once high Ra and Rs numbers would be much lower than the previous out of box finish. Hence, the ball slowly loses ball reaction with each use. Cleaning the surface will help keep the ball reaction consistent and also break down lane oil, but it isn’t capable of restoring original out of box Ra and Rs values. Luckily, our research has found the a fairly simple method to restore the out of box finish.

 

In order to restore these numbers, abralon pads are recommended for virtually every ball in our current or past production line. The easiest and fastest way to refinish the ball is to use a 360 grit abralon pad on the ball. If the ball is being finished by machine, 60 seconds is usually sufficient whereas other methods may take longer. The whole idea is to thoroughly, cut, scar and groove the surface of the ball with the 360 grit pad. Before finishing the 360 grit, make sure the entire surface of the ball has been evenly cut. If it is done by hand or by a ball spinner, a cross-hatch finish is recommended. For the next stage, very lightly sand the surface with a 500 grit abralon pad. This will lower the Ra and Rs values slightly, but it isn’t going to completely destroy the surface deviations created from the previous stage.

 

After the ball has been lightly sanded with 500 grit abralon, please skip directly to the original out of box finish. For example a 4000 grit finish, no polish would require using a 360 grit abralon pad, then light application of a 500 abralon pad finally, skip the 1000 and 2000 stages and go directly to the 4000 finish. The 360 and 500 grit abralon pads will reproduce the original deep grooves and cuts from the factory rounding and finishing process setting the foundation for the final finish. Then, by skipping directly to the 4000 grit abralon stage, the surface will be smoothed and ‘polished’ without destroying the surface deviations. This effectively leaves the surface with the high peaks and deep valleys, but they aren’t as sharp or jagged. This should restore the original ball reaction allowing the ball to skid on oil, read the lighter buff areas of the pattern and still have amazing recovery potential on the backend.

 

For polished balls, reproduce the 360 and 500 grit finish and then apply Storm Step 2 Finishing Compound. This is the exact same finishing compound we use on all of our 1500 grit polished balls. The trick to the polish application is to use less polish and very light pressure. Step 2 Finishing Compound has a resurfacing medium in it that sands the ball while it is being polished over-application of the compound will effectively destroy the same surface deviations that originally gave the ball its strong out of box finish.

 

The key to restoring any finish is deeply cutting the ball with the fresh 360 grit abralon pad and then very lightly applying a 500 grit pad. The same is true of the final  step as well. Over-application of the 1000, 2000, or 4000 grit pads can destroy the surface deviations created by the 360 and 500 steps weakening the over-all ball reaction.

 

Hopefully, if the sanding process has been repeated successfully, the end results will yield a ball with nearly the exact same Ra and Rs values originally found on the out of box finish restoring life back into the ball.

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Beano

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Re: HyRoad OOB surface
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2009, 10:40:08 PM »
i was informed that you could also get to the OOB by applying Reacta Shine over 1000 grit Abralon (500 grit first).  does this give the same result as the Storm Step 2 compound?
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charlest

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Re: HyRoad OOB surface
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2009, 10:54:15 PM »
quote:
i was informed that you could also get to the OOB by applying Reacta Shine over 1000 grit Abralon (500 grit first).  does this give the same result as the Storm Step 2 compound?
--------------------
It’s bush league psych-out stuff! Laughable, man!


Not exactly, but it can be very close. It's kind of an East-West approach, while the above is a North-South approach.
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HAMMERDOWN103

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Re: HyRoad OOB surface
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2009, 12:58:24 PM »
Sand down, bring it up to 4000 abralon, add polish. Works for me.
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titletowncards

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Re: HyRoad OOB surface
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2009, 12:23:54 AM »
I asked the same question to Storm, here it is:

As far as ball reaction is concerned, we have several recommendations to maintain ball performance and life, but the primary area of concern is with the surface topography of the ball. As a quick over-view, surface topography in the bowling industry has been measured with specific ‘Ra’ and ‘Rs’ standards. These values directly relate to how aggressive the coverstock is and how much friction the coverstock can generate. The Ra value measures the standard deviations above or below the surface of the ball. For example, a series of high peaks and low valleys would be measured with an extremely high Ra value. Likewise, the Great Plains with a relatively smooth landscape and rolling hills would have a low Ra value. Rs isn’t as important, but by definition is the average distance between each individual peaks.
The reason these numbers are important is because of the correlation between ball reaction and high Ra and Rs values. Essentially, the greater the Ra and Rs number, the more friction the coverstock can generate. The more friction the coverstock can generate, the greater hook potential the ball will have. What happens when a ball dies is the coverstock has lost the surface deviations originally found on the ball from the out of box finish. These deviations (high Ra and Rs numbers) are created in our finishing and rounding process by creating deep grooves, cuts, and scars on the surface of ball. Later, when the ball is finished, these rough surface deviations are smoothed and ‘polished’ but they aren’t completely removed. If you were to then examine the coverstock on a micron level, the steep peaks and valleys would still be on the surface of the ball, but they would be rounded. This creates the type of ball motion where the ball will still skid through the heads and midlanes cleanly, but still have a tremendous amount of friction generation capabilities as the ball enters the buff or exits the pattern.
However, as the ball encounters normal use, these peaks slowly flatten and the valleys collapse. If measured after normal use, the once high Ra and Rs numbers would be much lower than the previous out of box finish. Hence, the ball slowly loses ball reaction with each use. Cleaning the surface will help keep the ball reaction consistent and also break down lane oil, but it isn’t capable of restoring original out of box Ra and Rs values. Luckily, our research has found a fairly simple method to restore the out of box finish.
In order to restore these numbers, abralon pads are recommended for virtually every ball in our current or past production line. The easiest and fastest way to refinish the ball is to use a 360 grit abralon pad on the ball. If the ball is being finished by machine, 60 seconds is usually sufficient whereas other methods may take longer. The whole idea is to thoroughly, cut, scar and groove the surface of the ball with the 360 grit pad. Before finishing the 360 grit, make sure the entire surface of the ball has been evenly cut. If it is done by hand or by a ball spinner, a cross-hatch finish is recommended. For the next stage, very lightly sand the surface with a 500 grit abralon pad. This will lower the Ra and Rs values slightly, but it isn’t going to completely destroy the surface deviations created from the previous stage.
After the ball has been lightly sanded with 500 grit abralon, please skip directly to the original out of box finish. For example a 4000 grit finish, no polish would require using a 360 grit abralon pad, then light application of a 500 abralon pad finally, skip the 1000 and 2000 stages and go directly to the 4000 finish. The 360 and 500 grit abralon pads will reproduce the original deep grooves and cuts from the factory rounding and finishing process setting the foundation for the final finish. Then, by skipping directly to the 4000 grit abralon stage, the surface will be smoothed and ‘polished’ without destroying the surface deviations. This effectively leaves the surface with the high peaks and deep valleys, but they aren’t as sharp or jagged. This should restore the original ball reaction allowing the ball to skid on oil, read the lighter buff areas of the pattern and still have amazing recovery potential on the backend.

For polished balls, reproduce the 360 and 500 grit finish and then apply Storm Step 2 Finishing Compound. This is the exact same finishing compound we use on all of our 1500 grit polished balls. The trick to the polish application is to use less polish and very light pressure. Step 2 Finishing Compound has a resurfacing medium in it that sands the ball while it is being polished over-application of the compound will effectively destroy the same surface deviations that originally gave the ball it’s strong out of box finish.
The key to restoring any finish is deeply cutting the ball with the fresh 360 grit abralon pad and then very lightly applying a 500 grit pad. The same is true of the final  step as well. Over-application of the 1000, 2000, or 4000 grit pads can destroy the surface deviations created by the 360 and 500 steps weakening the over-all ball reaction.
Hopefully, if the sanding process has been repeated successfully, the end results will yield a ball with nearly the exact same Ra and Rs values originally found on the out of box finish restoring life back into the ball.


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titletowncards
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NewInBox

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Re: HyRoad OOB surface
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2009, 08:36:43 AM »
This is almost the exact thing RotoGrip sent me when I asked a similar question that I posted here.
http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=233784&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5
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titletowncards

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Re: HyRoad OOB surface
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2009, 09:45:03 AM »
NewInBox,
Yes, I saw that too when it was posted.  It makes sense though.
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titletowncards
You stop laughing right meow!