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Author Topic: Natural no longe in production?  (Read 10658 times)

Miffy1980

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Natural no longe in production?
« on: May 27, 2010, 02:05:16 PM »
Is that true?
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r534me

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Re: Natural no longe in production?
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2010, 09:43:42 AM »
quote:
If you watch the vid of  Jimmy Keeth bowling he isn''t in the 700 rev rate. The vid of him on youtube against WRW is the reason I say that. 500-700 revs is a lot and his ball reaction being in some from WRW isn''t that dramatic. He cradles the ball and generates a lot of revs for the time, but no way it is that high.
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" men lie, women lie, numbers don''t "


He''s cradles the ball and uncups and snaps it like most power players.  And he works the inside the ball as well.  It doesn''t look very fast either but from point of release to the impact of the pins it''s two seconds.  Maximum Bob is two point one seconds in the High Roller video.

You might not have a pba forum account so I retract the statement about taking the time to go there.  Here''s the quote from Max Bob,

"Jimmy Keith was the King of the Rev. thought he threw the ball with his forearm more than his hand. unreal. Belmo and Osku cheat!!! just kidding. i know both of them and yes i am the sissy in that group. all good."

http://pbaforum.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=860918&page=8


Edited on 6/8/2010 9:44 AM
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jls

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Re: Natural no longe in production?
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2010, 11:51:35 AM »
quote:
A flop? Really?  I know a ton of people who would disagree with that.  Including some tour guys.



Sir,  I believe when he said it was a flop, he meant in sales at the retail level...

No doubt this was indeed a GREAT ball for Tournament bowlers...

But since most bowlers "AIN'T" tournament bowlers,  the ball was just way to tame for them...

Another reason why this ball along with the Fast and Furious may have struggled was due to the pricing of the Freeze line...

These Storm models came in about $50 higher...

Now Storm/Roto has tried to answer back with the Riot and the Dark Star. Both a little more reasonably priced.
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jls
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Curt_Dupre

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Re: Natural no longe in production?
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2010, 07:14:54 PM »
quote:
STILL in production!
--------------------
Tyler Jensen
Regional Sales Manager for
Storm Products INC &
Turbo 2n1 Grips
TylerJ@stormbowling.com

Who the hell is this guy posting and acting like he is with Storm? I don't believe that this ball is still in production. I just don't believe it.
--------------------
Trackbowling.com
Mccorveysproshop.com
Track Regional Staff
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r534me

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Re: Natural no longe in production?
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2010, 04:22:11 AM »
quote:
quote:
A flop? Really?  I know a ton of people who would disagree with that.  Including some tour guys.



Sir,  I believe when he said it was a flop, he meant in sales at the retail level...

No doubt this was indeed a GREAT ball for Tournament bowlers...

But since most bowlers "AIN'T" tournament bowlers,  the ball was just way to tame for them...

Another reason why this ball along with the Fast and Furious may have struggled was due to the pricing of the Freeze line...

These Storm models came in about $50 higher...

Now Storm/Roto has tried to answer back with the Riot and the Dark Star. Both a little more reasonably priced.
--------------------
jls


I don't know if the natural is or isn't a sales flop but the RG Grenade is priced similar to the Natural.
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jls

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Re: Natural no longe in production?
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2010, 10:44:54 AM »
quote:
quote:
quote:
A flop? Really?  I know a ton of people who would disagree with that.  Including some tour guys.



Sir,  I believe when he said it was a flop, he meant in sales at the retail level...

No doubt this was indeed a GREAT ball for Tournament bowlers...

But since most bowlers "AIN'T" tournament bowlers,  the ball was just way to tame for them...

Another reason why this ball along with the Fast and Furious may have struggled was due to the pricing of the Freeze line...

These Storm models came in about $50 higher...

Now Storm/Roto has tried to answer back with the Riot and the Dark Star. Both a little more reasonably priced.
--------------------
jls


I don't know if the natural is or isn't a sales flop but the RG Grenade is priced similar to the Natural.



Sir
The Grenade was just released last week if I'm not mistaken...

The next call on that ball will be the first call...

Too early to tell how this model will do...

But since it's about $20 higher in cost than a Freeze...I would be a little worried...

But we shall see...

Hope it does well...


--------------------
jls
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r534me

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Re: Natural no longe in production?
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2010, 12:54:53 AM »
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
A flop? Really?  I know a ton of people who would disagree with that.  Including some tour guys.



Sir,  I believe when he said it was a flop, he meant in sales at the retail level...

No doubt this was indeed a GREAT ball for Tournament bowlers...

But since most bowlers "AIN'T" tournament bowlers,  the ball was just way to tame for them...

Another reason why this ball along with the Fast and Furious may have struggled was due to the pricing of the Freeze line...

These Storm models came in about $50 higher...

Now Storm/Roto has tried to answer back with the Riot and the Dark Star. Both a little more reasonably priced.
--------------------
jls


I don't know if the natural is or isn't a sales flop but the RG Grenade is priced similar to the Natural.



Sir
The Grenade was just released last week if I'm not mistaken...

The next call on that ball will be the first call...

Too early to tell how this model will do...

But since it's about $20 higher in cost than a Freeze...I would be a little worried...

But we shall see...

Hope it does well...


--------------------
jls


I would think that if the natural were a sales flop then RG would have held off on putting one out.  On the other hand, they could feel it will be fill a hole in their sales strategy.  

I guess we really don't know if either ball is or will be a flop unless the they report their sales numbers.
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TheDude

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Re: Natural no longe in production?
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2010, 08:19:45 AM »
This post is far from a flop! It has the most views and replies on the entire forum just about.(outside of the misc forum sections)
--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec-Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Keep them honest!

Ebay store updated very often: http://stores.ebay.com/gumby3170?refid+store
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec-Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Keep them honest!

Ebay store updated very often: http://stores.ebay.com/gumby3170?refid+store

tburky

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Re: Natural no longe in production?
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2010, 08:27:55 AM »
quote:
quote:
STILL in production!
--------------------
Tyler Jensen
Regional Sales Manager for
Storm Products INC &
Turbo 2n1 Grips
TylerJ@stormbowling.com

Who the hell is this guy posting and acting like he is with Storm? I don't believe that this ball is still in production. I just don't believe it.
--------------------
Trackbowling.com
Mccorveysproshop.com
Track Regional Staff



storm rep out of texas
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Miffy1980

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Re: Natural no longe in production?
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2010, 10:22:04 AM »
hi guys, thanks for all the replies, when i started the thread i thought it was dead as it kinda took a couple of weeks to have the first reply.

anyhow, i just heard it from the usual rumor mill. so i just thought i asked u guys here. i would have emailed storm directly but i did that once regarding blems and they never replied.

thanks for all the input guys, appreciate it.
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jls

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Re: Natural no longe in production?
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2010, 11:19:54 AM »
How do you really judge a ball...

By sales or by performance...

If you judge the Natural by sales... I would grade it sub par...

If you judge it by performance... I would rate it a birdie...

I really don't believe this ball was release to be a blockbuster in sales...

I believe Storm released it to meet certain conditions...

And it did...
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jls
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r534me

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Re: Natural no longe in production?
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2010, 02:58:00 PM »


I would add that it could have met or exceeded Storm's sales target. Unless we are informed of what it is it's all speculation at this point.
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Jorge300

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Re: Natural no longe in production?
« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2010, 03:22:38 PM »
quote:
quote:
If you watch the vid of  Jimmy Keeth bowling he isn''''t in the 700 rev rate. The vid of him on youtube against WRW is the reason I say that. 500-700 revs is a lot and his ball reaction being in some from WRW isn''''t that dramatic. He cradles the ball and generates a lot of revs for the time, but no way it is that high.
--------------------
" men lie, women lie, numbers don''''t "


I didn''t write he rolled 700 revs on TV.  I wrote he was tested at Kegel and he had 700 plus revs.  If you took the time to go to pba dot com you would have found that robert smith even responded to the thread.  Do you think Bob Vespi hooked it a lot?  Add a couple hundred more revs to the ball and think about what his reaction would have been.  

Here''s Maximum Bob using the same ball.  Jimmy Keeth had more revs than Robert Smith.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9bnH614taA

Edited on 6/8/2010 9:10 AM


Just a quick sidebar....if the rev rate was captured using CATS, it is incorrect. Just took a lesson with Mike Jasnau in Reno, he mentioned that the CATS system has a flaw, and that is the RPM measurement. It uses the 39 ft (break point) and compares it to the 60ft board (Hitting the pocket). The bigger the difference the larger the rev rate and vice-a-versa. Now Jimmy Keith does have a high rev rate, but it was probably inflated to the 700 number if they used CATS. Jasnau mentioned laughing at the rev rates they gave for the PBA players this year on the telecasts and how high they were.
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Jorge300

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Jorge300

Z Jellsey

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Re: Natural no longe in production?
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2010, 05:13:03 PM »
I get a bigger kick/laugh out of reading how high the rev rates are for people on here.
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r534me

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Re: Natural no longe in production?
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2010, 11:13:22 PM »
quote:
quote:
quote:
If you watch the vid of  Jimmy Keeth bowling he isn''''''''t in the 700 rev rate. The vid of him on youtube against WRW is the reason I say that. 500-700 revs is a lot and his ball reaction being in some from WRW isn''''''''t that dramatic. He cradles the ball and generates a lot of revs for the time, but no way it is that high.
--------------------
" men lie, women lie, numbers don''''''''t "


I didn''''t write he rolled 700 revs on TV.  I wrote he was tested at Kegel and he had 700 plus revs.  If you took the time to go to pba dot com you would have found that robert smith even responded to the thread.  Do you think Bob Vespi hooked it a lot?  Add a couple hundred more revs to the ball and think about what his reaction would have been.  

Here''''s Maximum Bob using the same ball.  Jimmy Keeth had more revs than Robert Smith.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9bnH614taA

Edited on 6/8/2010 9:10 AM


Just a quick sidebar....if the rev rate was captured using CATS, it is incorrect. Just took a lesson with Mike Jasnau in Reno, he mentioned that the CATS system has a flaw, and that is the RPM measurement. It uses the 39 ft (break point) and compares it to the 60ft board (Hitting the pocket). The bigger the difference the larger the rev rate and vice-a-versa. Now Jimmy Keith does have a high rev rate, but it was probably inflated to the 700 number if they used CATS. Jasnau mentioned laughing at the rev rates they gave for the PBA players this year on the telecasts and how high they were.
--------------------
Jorge300



I don''t know what system they used to measure Jimmy Keeth.  The only thing I know for sure is that it was a few years ago because Jimmy Keeth passed away in 2005.  The rate was exceeded by someone else and it was recorded at 796 at Kegel.  Does anyone knows how Kegel measures rev rates?  I see they used it now and I wonder what they used to measure Jimmy Keeth.

Edited on 6/15/2010 11:44 PM
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Dan Belcher

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Re: Natural no longe in production?
« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2010, 06:58:17 AM »
quote:
Just a quick sidebar....if the rev rate was captured using CATS, it is incorrect. Just took a lesson with Mike Jasnau in Reno, he mentioned that the CATS system has a flaw, and that is the RPM measurement. It uses the 39 ft (break point) and compares it to the 60ft board (Hitting the pocket). The bigger the difference the larger the rev rate and vice-a-versa. Now Jimmy Keith does have a high rev rate, but it was probably inflated to the 700 number if they used CATS. Jasnau mentioned laughing at the rev rates they gave for the PBA players this year on the telecasts and how high they were.
Good point.  When I worked with Mike Jasnau, the CATS system measured my rev rate as something like 330-350rpm on average, which is a gross overstatement.  I've measured my rev rate on video several times, and it's actually in the 225-250rpm range!
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