I think I needed a little clarification on what angle you are trying to spin here. Because here, you are saying that a 5 year old ball out performs the new stuff, and I get the impression that you think that is a bad thing, because the industry isn't being innovative enough:

And why does it sell so well?  Because it's a good ball.  But it's over 5 years old now, and is still outperforming "new and improved" equipment.  I'm surprised more people don't see that.  A 5+ year old ball is better than most of what they're releasing now, but they never stop and think about exactly what that means. 

But here you are saying that changing things just to change is a bad thing, and a light bulb core is just as good as the "gear core" that Motiv uses, so why change for change sake? I'm surmising that you are saying that it is just a marketing ploy:

Cores matter, I didn't mean to sound like it doesn't matter what size or shape core they put in the ball.  I meant that core names and their aesthetics are marketing.  Does DV8 really get any performance benefit out of the face on their Nightmare core?  No.  Marketing.  Does this new core have to be shaped exactly like that to get the reaction they're after?  No, but it looks cooler.  Does a ball smelling like something increase performance?  No, but it's cool.  Do they really need to keep making wildly different cores?  No.  The lightbulb core still works just fine.  Does making it look like a gear change anything?  No. 

In other words, they could have gotten exactly the same reaction out of the core with a more boring look or name.  But is that interesting?  No.  Just gets hype about something that doesn't matter that much. 

 Are you saying that they should be more innovative with their creations so that the consumer feels like they are getting their money's worth (as pertaining to the first post);

 or are you saying they should stop making new equipment because they aren't being innovative enough as pertaining to the second post)?


The bottom line is, the industry tries to give the consumer what they ask for. Look at how many threads start on here by people wanting to know what is "next", sometimes only days after a ball has just been released. It is a consumer driven market. The same reason that Storm has now released three different versions of the Natural, and now the Pitch Black, all with variations of urethane covers on them. Industry sees a need for it. Plus, you can't over look ALL the many variables that exist with lane conditions and lane surfaces, and oils.

Just look at cover stocks. You put the R2S pearl on the Victory Road, and it is very popular. As soon as you put the R2X pearl on it (the Fire Road), it doesn't do so well. Same core, different cover. You combine that with the evolution of lane oils (I happen to think that the Fire Road rolls like the Victory Road when used on Ice oil, compared to the Victory Road being used on something less slick like Navigate or Fire). But, throw Fire oil on HPL and watch the Fire Road slow down too early and not corner strong enough, hence a bad ball motion to most.

But to be fair, the R2S Hybrid has done well on almost every ball that it was used on. That cover just is really good for most patterns in the medium range. You put a little surface on it for speed dominate players, and it doesn't slow down too much, and polish it for rev dominate, and it doesn't over squirt. For me personally, I preferred the Crossroad over the Hyroad.

I really think the consumer base, and I don't necessarily mean the majority, I just mean the most vocal which is who buys the most product, seems to want change, and keep looking for the new cover, or new core that is the next best thing, and that is why so many releases. That is just today's society. Look at cell phones. Is the Galaxy S5 that much better than the S4? The consumer doesn't care, they just want the next thing, so Samsung makes it, and places it in the market.

"New" balls are introduced because in a ball's life cycle sales are basically cut in half every month it is on the market.  There are a few exceptions, Hyroad, Virtual Gravity, V2, Gold Messenger off the top of my head, but for the most part it's in half every month.  Most people buy a ball a year at most, so they need to see new balls when they go into the pro shop.

Exactly, and I think plenty of people see that, or they should.  I just don't like the marketing spin of the "all new" features of the ball that are supposed to have some huge impact on performance and then really don't because it's all theoretical.  I have to shoot down this kind of thinking every day, and I really don't like doing it.  There was some kid getting super excited and jealous about another kid here in town who has a Beast Mode.  Super rare, only 400 made, it's "special," blah blah.  You take your Beast Mode, and I'll still beat you with any ball I have, including 10 year old balls on my rack in the basement . .  Everybody is in business to make money, but when you start working angles and telling half truths to do it, I don't like that.  Let's cram a bunch of vitamins into some Fruity Pebbles and try to convince people it's healthy too.  I could stick a bunch in a dog turd too and tell you it's healthy.  People get hyped about something, then they want to go buy it whether they need it or not, and then they get pissed when it doesn't work out.  But I guess hype works better than education. 

Balls wear out.  There are physical reasons why we are reaching limits in what can be accomplished with shells and cores.  Therefore new balls with different colors but existing best technology are the option.

I guess I just think it can be done both ways.  I continue to drill new balls realizing full well the whole story, but honestly stuff wears out, and it's fun to drill new stuff.  I'm not drilling new equipment because I think I need it to give me an edge or because it's the "latest and greatest." 

Quote from: Gizmo823 on May 22, 2014, 07:24:07 AM

Exactly, and I think plenty of people see that, or they should.  I just don't like the marketing spin of the "all new" features of the ball that are supposed to have some huge impact on performance and then really don't because it's all theoretical.  I have to shoot down this kind of thinking every day, and I really don't like doing it.  There was some kid getting super excited and jealous about another kid here in town who has a Beast Mode.  Super rare, only 400 made, it's "special," blah blah.  You take your Beast Mode, and I'll still beat you with any ball I have, including 10 year old balls on my rack in the basement . .  Everybody is in business to make money, but when you start working angles and telling half truths to do it, I don't like that.  Let's cram a bunch of vitamins into some Fruity Pebbles and try to convince people it's healthy too.  I could stick a bunch in a dog turd too and tell you it's healthy.  People get hyped about something, then they want to go buy it whether they need it or not, and then they get pissed when it doesn't work out.  But I guess hype works better than education. 

Quote from: avabob on May 21, 2014, 12:34:01 PM

Balls wear out.  There are physical reasons why we are reaching limits in what can be accomplished with shells and cores.  Therefore new balls with different colors but existing best technology are the option.

Calm down, America was built on Capitalism and will continue to be. This line of thinking that you detest keeps you and me employed.

Yeah, if we see one ball all over the Summer-Swing telecasts, we will know what the next hot buy will be!

If it's because people see a reaction they need or want, that's great!  Buying a ball because you saw it in action is a much better reason than because a poster showed you a "new" core . .

I think we're both on the same page, just don't realize it.  I like that they aren't changing what isn't broken, I like that the Hyroad has been around this long, I just think it's a double edged sword.  When marketing has been pushing new new new for years now, but they've been using old old old, eventually you come to a marketing "crossroad" (pun intended).  I'm not a fan of sensational marketing, it's misleading, and contributes to misinformation and misunderstanding.  It's confusing, and it makes education difficult.  A lot of core design is marketing.  Now as far as I know, Storm hasn't done anything wild or over the top promoting the Optimus, it seems very appropriate.  But people have already been pre-programmed to go over the moon anytime something is "new."  I'm interested to see what the new core does differently, but I'm not expecting anything revolutionary.  A small difference in the shape of the ball motion can be a big thing, and from the video posted by Bowlers Deals, it reminds me of the Byte, but the shape IS slightly different.  I just hate seeing people get over excited and then ultimately disappointed because it isn't the huge difference they were expecting, at the end of the day it's still just a bowling ball.  And it would be a shame for people to be disappointed, because it looks like a REALLY good ball. 

It's really nothing against Storm, I like what they're doing right now, but people are going nuts over this core.  It's cool, I like the concept, but I was just using that as an example of the type of consumer that sensationalist marketing has created.  I'm excited myself, but within reason, paying attention to what's going on.  I'm a huge Motiv fan, obviously, and Fusion is great, I like seeing it on stuff.  If they changed absolutely nothing about what they're doing, that would be awesome, Storm too.  I'd still eat up everything that comes out, but I'd have the right perspective on what's going on. 

People like new. Take Radical for instance. Are those finger scoop cores really that much better than Storm's light bulb? I really can't say, but its new and intriguing. The persona that if its new, it must be better isn't a bad one. That "new" core could very well yield a different roll, that could very well match up better for you than me. But I would never say that it was a bad ball for me. I just never capitalized on the assets the ball possesed. It really does seem to other pksters and myself that you are talking negative about Storm because of the Optimus, yet it is ok for Motiv to rerelease an 3 year old core on the Octane? Tracks Hx05 is the 505a and kinetic pearl. Same ball released 3 times over 7 Years? Nobody cared. Motiv takes the Fusion cover last summer and puts it on the Primal Rage, amd now it is on the Tribal, Sting, Cruel Intent, and whatever else. Nobody is complaining. Why? Because we as an industry give the customer what they want. They like a certain roll and companies capitalize on what they want. So the red ball cover went onto balls from every line up. Same as storm putting the R2_ on every line up. Its a roll that people like. So if they have to redsign a core and put similar numbers on it, then so be it. Its new and will roll just as good as the last piece that sold really well. Win win for operators and clients.

Yeah, I don't see the same fervor when talking about Motiv releases.