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Author Topic: Special Agent - I have to ask....  (Read 2640 times)

lefty50

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Special Agent - I have to ask....
« on: April 08, 2009, 12:11:41 PM »
Ok, Why is it, that, no matter what ball I tey that is supposedly "Special", my Special Agent has more drive than all of them? Neither my VG nor my Rogue Cell can match it. don't get me wrong, the Rogue Cell is good, but that #$%^& Special Agent just shines... Rogue is 4x3 and Special is 5x4 pin up....
Rogue hits like a truck when it gets there, but the special is the only ball to always get there....
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Edited on 4/8/2009 8:12 PM

Edited on 4/8/2009 8:12 PM
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sevenpin63

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Re: Special Agent - I have to ask....
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2009, 08:29:22 PM »
I have the same thing with my Special Agent, it out hooks, and out drives all my other balls. Infact the Special Agent has replaced my Cell in my bag. I got my Special Agent late, I wish I got it alot earlier when Storm released it.
But its one hell of a ball, and I was told it was a medium ball, ya right.
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Razr

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Re: Special Agent - I have to ask....
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2009, 08:37:05 PM »
funny thing actually because I'm having the same thing happen to me.. I found my special agent in my closet and decided to give it a few throws and now I'm completely hooked on the ball..

It plows the pins drives through continuously, hands down the most controllable continuous, strongest ball I've ever owned!


Not to mention this ball I got about 2 years ago when I was still in the learning process so it probably hadn't been cleaned in a long time with as many as...300+ games at least..



Great ball absolutely.
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charlest

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Re: Special Agent - I have to ask....
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2009, 08:42:03 PM »
Maybe the super low RG, higher flare potential and the rougher surface (2000 grit, vs 4000 on the Rogue and the VG) of the Special is what you need to better match up your release to the oil amount/pattern on which you're bowling?

Plus it's now used a bit, allowing for some wear in the track area ...

Maybe the MB on the other two is not properly set up for your release and tilt and ball speed. That always has a big effect on strong mass bias balls.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Razr

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Re: Special Agent - I have to ask....
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2009, 08:47:14 PM »
quote:
Maybe the super low RG, higher flare potential and the rougher surface (2000 grit, vs 4000 on the Rogue and the VG) of the Special is what you need to better match up your release to the oil amount/pattern on which you're bowling?

Plus it's now used a bit, allowing for some wear in the track area ...

Maybe the MB on the other two is not properly set up for your release and tilt and ball speed. That always has a big effect on strong mass bias balls.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."




The ball is asym? I don't believe I have a MB marking anywhere...?


But it's just the best thing I've ever thrown. Glad I decided to throw mine again because the ball just does not quitt..
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tc300

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Re: Special Agent - I have to ask....
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2009, 09:54:36 PM »
i LOVE the agent line... the special does stand out a bit more tho compared to the orig and secret. had many good series' with them all, but the good games are with special. i own 3 specials and wouldnt trade the world for them!! hahaha

Edited on 4/8/2009 9:56 PM
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charlest

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Re: Special Agent - I have to ask....
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2009, 10:12:47 PM »
quote:
quote:
Maybe the super low RG, higher flare potential and the rougher surface (2000 grit, vs 4000 on the Rogue and the VG) of the Special is what you need to better match up your release to the oil amount/pattern on which you're bowling?

Plus it's now used a bit, allowing for some wear in the track area ...

Maybe the MB on the other two is not properly set up for your release and tilt and ball speed. That always has a big effect on strong mass bias balls.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."




The ball is asym? I don't believe I have a MB marking anywhere...?


But it's just the best thing I've ever thrown. Glad I decided to throw mine again because the ball just does not quitt..


The Rogue and the Vg are asymmetric. The Agent is not.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

tburky

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Re: Special Agent - I have to ask....
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2009, 10:37:29 PM »
The rogue and virtual are stronger balls than the special
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r534me

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Re: Special Agent - I have to ask....
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2009, 12:30:23 AM »
My SA was disappointing in heavy oil likely due to a short pin and drilling layout. While I was selling it I sent an e-mail to Storm Tech and asked about redrilling it to get more length. Victor recommended taking it down to 500 and bringing it up to 4000 and then polish. I retrieve it and did as he suggested. I used it yesterday in a THS and the change was dramatic. It clears the heads and once it hits the midlane it rolls heavy and controllable. It's not disappointing any longer.

Instead of selling the ball, it's coming with me to the Nats to back up my VG and 2D.
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Razr

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Re: Special Agent - I have to ask....
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2009, 06:12:56 AM »
quote:
The rogue and virtual are stronger balls than the special



Well, I've owned the VG and got rid of it before I even out..more than 20+ games and my SA was pretty close but just seemed to have more drive through the pins than my VG ever had..


I haven't thrown a rouge, but I've had both cell, and cell pearl, and it's more than both, control wise and over-all hook in the oil.


and @ charlest - Ok, I understand now I got a little confused.
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Dan Belcher

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Re: Special Agent - I have to ask....
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2009, 07:04:43 AM »
Lefty, you mentioned the Special Agent is a 5x4 layout while the Rogue is a 4x3.  Perhaps you drilled the Rogue too strong and too high flaring to match what you need?  I personally like lower-flaring drills usually since it controls the midlane, and I can use surface to manage the reaction better.  My Special Agent is still sitting in my basement (now replaced by the Dimension, which I think is an even better ball, which is saying a lot!!!  A little earlier and smoother, but handles even more oil, and is even less prone to overreacting off the dry!), but I also have a 5" pin to PAP layout, over the bridge, on my Special Agent, and it does indeed hook and hit very well.
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charlest

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Re: Special Agent - I have to ask....
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2009, 10:03:17 AM »
quote:
The rogue and virtual are stronger balls than the special


With their 4000 Abralon finish and strong mass bias core, they are stronger in the backend, but the SA is earlier. The people who find the SA more appropriate may need the earliness to combat their ball speed and/or the amount of oil they face.

Dan may also have a point with his drilling question/concern. A 4" pin to PAP (no mention of the height of the pin, which is also important) can make the ball read the mids too early.

We also have to remember that here in "typed words" land, a picture is worth a thousand words, and bowling is a video. How many still pictures is in a video.  The point is people take all kinds of shortcuts describing what is happening with balls. We NEVER see the full picture. One good coach/driller, knowing the bowler, could do in 5 minutes of watching him bowl and making 2 or 3 suggestions or asnwering a couple of questions, more than we can in 10 pages of questions and answers in a thread!
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

r534me

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Re: Special Agent - I have to ask....
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2009, 11:08:36 AM »
I think to make a fair comparison the SA, VG, and RC need to have the same drilling and the same surface.  To say one hooks more, the old saying "it depends" should be said.

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lefty50

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Re: Special Agent - I have to ask....
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2009, 07:22:18 AM »
Actually r, you're stating the obvious. Of course they should be exactly identical. All I'm saying is that the setup and reaction on my Special is superior to any other ball I've tried that's considered "stronger" and curious as to whether it's only me. From the responses, you'll see general agreement.

Dan, question 4 u. I concur that it may be the setup, although most of the "stronger" balls have been asym, where drilling is much touchier than the symmetric balls like the agent. Not sure this makes sense, but let me ask the following:

What about the old conventional wisdom that 3-3/8 pin to pap is strongest and that something like 5x4 would be weaker and later. Does that NOT hold true in general, or are you saying that the strong drilling burns early and that a weaker drilling on the strong ball will still generate more backend? In that case, why buy a "strong ball" and not just strong drill on a weak ball?

What's always bothered me about the "burns early" scenario (and maybe the light bulb just came on), is that I would expect early and excessive hook, not a flat reaction. Is it possible that losing the energy in the early phases of the 3 stage reaction (skid, roll, hook) causes a flat reaction?
Apologies for not phrasing that in an optimal fashion, but perhaps you get what I mean.
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r534me

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Re: Special Agent - I have to ask....
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2009, 10:26:09 AM »
lefty50, I stated the obvious because the statmements from people indicate that's not how they are being compared, and on a condition it was meant for, heavy oil.  Riggs reported in a review of the VG that it has replaced his SA as his oiler ball.  I think he's a pretty good authority on what works.

I believe a balls transtition is skid, hook, and roll, and not skid, roll, and hook.

http://www.bowl.com/articleView.aspx?i=12780

References for ball ratings.

http://www.bowlersjournal.com/no_holes_barred/display_article.php?id=74
http://www.bowlersjournal.com/no_holes_barred/display_article.php?id=302


I noticed in your profile your tilt is 90 degrees.  My tilt is 45 degrees.  I wonder if that's where we differ in our experiences.

Look at the movement of this VG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq_5AKT-EKM





Edited on 4/10/2009 11:24 AM
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