Post by: charlest on July 29, 2011, 11:49:19 AM
I didn't know that. I was just looking at Storm's plastic (really polyester) balls, since my original Ice Storm is getting pretty beaten up. It's the closest thing I've found to an original Blue Dot.
Anyway, I'm looking at their New Purple/Silver and Black/Silver Ice Storms and, just for kicks, look at the Black and the White Team Storm balls. I notice the White one has a differential of .018" while all the rest have a much lower .006". Hey, is this a misprint? So I look at the Core of the White one. It is not a pancake core.
I mean it's not the most dynamic looking of cores and the RG is still kind of high, but it can get some flare. My Ice Storm can hook a bit on dry lanes and is already, even with its pancake core, a decent strike ball on real dry lanes. And, boy, do I see some dry lanes here in NJ during the summer!
So, Lane#1 is not the only manufacturer with a plastic ball that flares!!
(I think Lane#1's plastic ball's core has a differential of around .030".)
You learn something new every day.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: Juggernaut on July 29, 2011, 09:42:39 PM
Jeff,
Hold on a minute, and check this out: http://hammerbowling.com/products/product_detail/axe/ .
Basically, it says that the pancake cored AXE plastic ball has a .020 differential in it. Here are the specs I did a cut&paste on.
RG / DIFFERENTIAL
#10 RG (2.81) Diff (.020)
#11 RG (2.77) Diff (.020)
#12 RG (2.75) Diff (.020)
#13 RG (2.72) Diff (.020)
#14 RG (2.69) Diff (.020)
#15 RG (2.65) Diff (.020)
#16 RG (2.64) Diff (.020)
Edited by Juggernaut on 7/29/2011 at 9:44 PM
Post by: charlest on July 30, 2011, 07:29:20 AM
Jugs,
I'm pretty sure that the standard pancake has a differential around .020".
The Ebonite Maxim also does. See Maxim specs
More interesting are those resin balls with real cores whose differential are equal to or less than than the Pancake's .020":
- Visionary Blue/Green Centaur = .015"
- Lane#1's Gemstone & Chainsaw SOS = .013"
- Storm Tropical Breeze = .009"
- Brunswick Slingshot = .017"
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Edited by charlest on 7/30/2011 at 7:29 AM
Post by: htotheizzo3561 on July 30, 2011, 08:01:21 AM
Lane 1 had probably the best core in a plastic ball in the xxxl, varity of colors and crystal diamond.however these are discontinued.
Yo Yo Yo Mo Fo
Post by: JustRico on July 30, 2011, 08:48:24 AM
Charlest is correct almost every pancake type core has a diff around .020 which is very similar to what the Sling Shot core is.....
The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.
Post by: Juggernaut on July 30, 2011, 11:20:42 AM
Ric,
Yes, I'm aware of that as well. But, the subject of this thread suggested that, perhaps, Jeff thought that the .018 was a higher differential number for a polyester ball, or that the ball he spoke of has more flare potential than a regular pancake core.
You, and Jeff, are two reasonably well versed people about subjects like this, and that is why his statement confused me just a bit. I would've thought he was aware that there were other polyester balls available with differentials, or at least rated to have them.
Its all about how much differential is left after drilling that matters anyway, so my statement wasn't an argument of any kind, it was just something I had seen, and thought I would offer the information, that's all.
Post by: charlest on July 30, 2011, 01:57:07 PM
I agree that I should have been more clear. While the White Team Storm ball's differential is closer to that of a pancake core, its shape PLUS its differential is what, to my mind, makes it different. It is also what's good about the Slingshot and some of the balls I mentioned above.
The core is a "real" core, not just a chunk of weight placed up to replace the weight removed by finger holes. The core shape allows it to be treated dynamically, thus allowing it to be treated more like the famous Lane#1 XXXL. While you will probably not have a choice of pin-CG lengths when you chose a White TS ball, there should be some and the greater the length, the more dynamic the reaction will be.
We all know that pancake cores are pretty limiting in drilling options, notwithstanding Mo's special contribution, in the Mark Roth Plastic Ball Championship.
So, I suppose the title of the post should have been "Storm has a polyester ball with a dynamic core!"
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Edited by charlest on 7/30/2011 at 1:58 PM
Post by: TheDude on July 30, 2011, 01:58:08 PM
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec-Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Keep them honest!
Ebay store updated very often: http://stores.ebay.com/gumby3170?refid+store
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 30, 2011, 02:42:09 PM
Maybe it makes a difference maybe it doesn't
The T-Zone Has a bell core similar to the hockey pucks many manufactures used for a while on weaker bowling balls. EBI Stingers back in the day would have one on top and one on bottom. Storm had some that used the pucks as well.
"Get out of bowling what you want because that is all there is."
Post by: Juggernaut on July 30, 2011, 04:10:43 PM
Since you mentioned this, I thought that I would add this. Back in the day, before we knew anything about differentials and the like, I had an old Columbia white dot that would track flare. We really never figured out what the deal was with it, because we weighed it quite a few times, and it always appeared to come in within the static limits. We didn't realize that this was a GOOD thing, and was the reason I almost didn't even use it, but the way it carried made me decide to use it. Back then, it was thought that a balls track should be a small, single ring around the ball.
There was nothing "unusual" about the drilling either, as it was a basic "finger/negative" drilling, which means it was label shifted to have both finger weight and negative sideweight. But it would flare about two-three inches. And it hit harder, and carried better, than anything else I had at the time. I even shot an 800 three game set with it one day while practicing.
I wish I had never gotten rid of it. Perhaps, with modern methods, we could've figured out what the deal was with it.
Edited by Juggernaut on 7/30/2011 at 4:15 PM
Post by: charlest on July 30, 2011, 05:37:48 PM
I did mention one of those drilling, but a new one, that Mo formulated for the Mark Roth Championship. It made the pancake cored plastic balls flare more than the leverage CG shift of the 80s.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 30, 2011, 06:13:08 PM
I don't think the one Mo used for the plastic ball championship was so new. They used it with the old Hammrers back in the day. I always heard it called the "Wiseman pattern" because I'm guessing he was one of the first who really used it a lot with the urethane pancake Hammers from FAB. Maybe Mo modified the layout some more for a more exact ending result, but it looks the same.
"Get out of bowling what you want because that is all there is."
Post by: charlest on July 30, 2011, 07:50:18 PM
It was new to me, and with all the discussions about it, no one mentioned it had been used previously. In fact, Mo's sidekick/coworker, (don't recall his name, but he does a lot of their math/physics) was the one credited for actually developing it just for that tournament. So I thought it was new.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: T C 300 on August 02, 2011, 03:40:29 AM
the logo of belmonte is what makes the ball flare....... ;->
o... revs help a tad also
Post by: kidlost2000 on August 02, 2011, 05:12:12 AM
When you get time ask him how it differs from the pattern used on the old Hammers and if it was referred to as the "Wiseman pattern" if it rings a bell. I assume he had something to do with it since he was with FAB at that time.
This is copied ans pasted from an email in 2010 when I asked Danny Wiseman about it.
" Yea that was a long time ago with symmetrical non flaring hammers....I do not know if that would work with todays balls. maybe something like a .20 diff or less...I vagly remember but think your right. Pin was near the ring with cg out and above on a 45 deg in the upper quadrent. like what we do today with the MB strong by the thumb at 45 between the track and axis. In the upper right part of the ball tough. Fingers deep and a big weight hole on the VAL but up between the upper track and PAP "
Danny
"Get out of bowling what you want because that is all there is."
Edited by kidlost2000 on 8/2/2011 at 5:13 AM