Quote from: bradl on March 14, 2022, 06:27:56 PM

Quote from: SVstar34 on March 14, 2022, 02:47:39 PM

Quote from: svengali on March 14, 2022, 02:11:43 PM

Quote from: JamminJD on March 14, 2022, 01:50:30 PM

Quote from: northface28 on March 14, 2022, 01:02:42 PM

Can confirm more SPI balls are being heavily scrutinized.

Oh Boy!

RIP Idol Helios was nice knowing ya.

Could you imagine that being true after a second 900 series was just thrown with one

I'm hearing rumours that Rash was throwing a Spectre during the tournament and/or finals when he was complaining about the Purple Hammer. I didn't watch the show so I don't know..

If so, I don't know which way to take it...

BL.

SO, the question is, is there a rat? Do we have the box of balls that say spin me going on again? Hopefully not, bowling doesn't need this negative publicity..

Now it's "Poke Me" 

There is still a difference.

When Rash had his dust up on TV, multiple Purple Hammers had previously tested and failed exam, and yet the USBC/PBA both allowed use of the ball to continue.

At the same time, not a single Spectre had failed exam, so how would anyone know?

There is a difference between using a ball that others used and have been known to not pass and continue to use versus a ball that never had failed before.

Now if Rash were to use the Spectre in something (how could he because its banned) then yes, now you have the same scenario because he now knows it has failed.

I'd bet if you test the balls Rash or Belmonte used to win they would pass.  No chance a whole ball release worth of balls with a projected 98% failure rate gets sent out to distributors by mistake.  There is also no chance you are sending balls from those failed batches to your marquee players who you know will have balls tested.  Just like there is no chance only one person in Hopkinsville knew they produced bad balls for 2 years.

This would seem imply that Storm knew there were bad ones vs good from the beginning and made sure the PBA players did not get the soft ones and were okay risking everyone else using a ball that could be banned and have to be replace by Storm.   That is a lot of risk for a mid performance ball that sells for $139

I think with everything we learned on the purples and other urethane is that the PBA was/is not testing balls so if players were using Spectre or any other ball that was soft no one would know. 

This lead to the two year rule to keep the PBA from having to test ball hardness still. pAth of least resistance/work.

Quote from: bradl on March 14, 2022, 06:27:56 PM

Quote from: SVstar34 on March 14, 2022, 02:47:39 PM

Quote from: svengali on March 14, 2022, 02:11:43 PM

Quote from: JamminJD on March 14, 2022, 01:50:30 PM

Quote from: northface28 on March 14, 2022, 01:02:42 PM

Can confirm more SPI balls are being heavily scrutinized.

Oh Boy!

RIP Idol Helios was nice knowing ya.

Could you imagine that being true after a second 900 series was just thrown with one

I'm hearing rumours that Rash was throwing a Spectre during the tournament and/or finals when he was complaining about the Purple Hammer. I didn't watch the show so I don't know..

If so, I don't know which way to take it...

BL.

SO, the question is, is there a rat? Do we have the box of balls that say spin me going on again? Hopefully not, bowling doesn't need this negative publicity..

I guarantee you every brand is testing all other brands equipment to look for flaws.

Quote from: itsallaboutme on March 15, 2022, 07:25:52 AM

I'd bet if you test the balls Rash or Belmonte used to win they would pass.  No chance a whole ball release worth of balls with a projected 98% failure rate gets sent out to distributors by mistake.  There is also no chance you are sending balls from those failed batches to your marquee players who you know will have balls tested.  Just like there is no chance only one person in Hopkinsville knew they produced bad balls for 2 years.

This would seem imply that Storm knew there were bad ones vs good from the beginning and made sure the PBA players did not get the soft ones and were okay risking everyone else using a ball that could be banned and have to be replace by Storm.   That is a lot of risk for a mid performance ball that sells for $139

I think with everything we learned on the purples and other urethane is that the PBA was/is not testing balls so if players were using Spectre or any other ball that was soft no one would know. 

This lead to the two year rule to keep the PBA from having to test ball hardness still. pAth of least resistance/work.

The PBA's 2 year rule only applies to pure urethane, not reactive equipment.  However it will be interesting to see if that rule gets amended in light of this current fiasco.

Belmo only used the Spectre for the final frame of his Player's Championship win a couple of weeks ago, so it isn't like he used it the entire match [and that was prior to the revocation of the certification anyway.]

It may be that actually testing all equipment at check-in and in between each round is the only solution now that old and new equipment is apparently testing out-of-spec.

The bowler can't really get penalized in these cases.  You can't look at a ball and know it is out of compliance.  To penalize the bowler is to insinuate they were complicit in some sort of scheme to use an illegal ball.  It could simply be a case of the ball being incorrectly manufactured [such as the Spectre.]

All you can really do is confiscate the ball and not allow it to be used.  The PBA could also do an immediate spot check of all whatever make and model balls tested illegal and see if there is a systemic issue [go to the ball truck and test undrilled balls, check balls held by other bowlers, etc.]  If more of those balls test illegal, they are banned entirely from PBA competition.  If it is just a random non-compliant ball it gets confiscated and the bowler simply cannot use it in that tournament.  I suppose you could also have a provision that says any bowler who has a ball test non-compliant will automatically be subject to equipment testing for the next two seasons at all PBA events in which they participate. 



 

So what you are saying is I am supposed to know (if I was a PBA pro) if my Spectre was pinging too soft on the durometer? So now I need to carry a duromater with me at every stop for when I drill a new ball on the truck?

Also, if I was with Motiv during the original Jackal and Jackal Carnage days, I am supposed to have the resources at my fingertips available to spin a ball and determine because undrilled its spinning .061 or more that its illegal and I should not drill it? So once again, if I drill something on the truck, I need to have whatever with me to spin the ball before I drill it and say yep, its under .060?

Making sure I understand your thought correctly Milo...

Milo that is like saying a pitcher in baseball is supposed to know if the baseball is wound tight enough or if in hockey the pucks being used are the correct hardness or in golf if the ball had the correct materials in it at the time of production and so on.

I agree with you that a pro should not be altering the object to change its performance in any way against the rules, but if the professional is provided an object/item I think there has to be some good faith involved that what the manufacturer is providing is actually what they say they are providing.

The manufacturer is the professional in manufacturing the ball, the bowler is the professional in throwing the ball, not the manufacturing of the ball.

But alas, if that is your opinion, you are absolutely entitled to it. No argument here on that.