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Author Topic: Virtual Gravity Question  (Read 4689 times)

MrNickRo

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Virtual Gravity Question
« on: February 28, 2013, 10:54:36 AM »
I have a virtual gravity that never really worked that great for me.  I'm at about 400RPM and 15-17 mph.  I'm bowling WI state tournament this weekend and the strongest ball I have is a berserk, which has been great, but I want to have something stronger JIC.

I'm looking to throw my VG in the storm surface factory machine tonight at league, and am looking for advice.

I was thinking I would like to lower the grit and polish it up a little.  Will the ball motion still be stronger than my other stuff?

Berserk - pin down OOB
Frantic - pin up OOB
Reign - pin up OOB

I'm probably going to throw my reign in there for an extra coat of polish in case I run into any toast.

 

2handedrook12

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Re: Virtual Gravity Question
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2013, 07:07:40 PM »
Were do you play on the lane? The virtual gravity is great for playing up the boards if left at a lower grit. But if you take it to 500/light polish, it will roll great! This ball will burn a hole in the pattern that will allow to ball down at lower grits. But at higher grits with a low grit underlay (500/4000), it will break the pattern down enough to were you can move a little deeper without the ball sacrificing carrying power. How is your by drilled?
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vkowalski1970

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Re: Virtual Gravity Question
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2013, 07:22:22 PM »
I had a lot of success with both the VG and VG nano going from box to straight 2000. The 500/4000 surface reads more like 1000 and would burn up for me or be too early. By going 500/1000/2000 it made it get through the heads a bit better and read the midlane better for me. It still needs oil and will be considerably stronger than the Beserk. My soul which is about 3-4 boards weaker than my Nano is 3-4 boards stronger than the Beserk.
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completebowler

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Re: Virtual Gravity Question
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2013, 09:56:56 PM »
I had a lot of success with both the VG and VG nano going from box to straight 2000. The 500/4000 surface reads more like 1000 and would burn up for me or be too early. By going 500/1000/2000 it made it get through the heads a bit better and read the midlane better for me. It still needs oil and will be considerably stronger than the Beserk. My soul which is about 3-4 boards weaker than my Nano is 3-4 boards stronger than the Beserk.

Not trying to argue but this makes no sense to me. 4000 was burning up and now 2000 clears the front? I play with covers more than anyone I know and to me this is impossible even with the extra step at 1000 in between.

As to the O.P. I have had a TON of equipment in that line and very few work well for me personally with shine on them. I had two V.G.'s that were tired and taking them down to 1000 helped them roll better. With your current arsenal I would try it at 1000-2000 grit to get it to read and roll better. Especially going to a tournament where you might see more oil.

2handedrook12

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Re: Virtual Gravity Question
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2013, 10:21:50 PM »
+1
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vkowalski1970

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Re: Virtual Gravity Question
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2013, 10:25:36 PM »
The peaks of the 500 stay larger and will make the ball grab harder than when you use the 1000/2000 over it, basically it takes more of the surface of the peak away. Keep in mind the 500/4000 surface is a very light 4000 over the top. The surfaces of ob nanos have read 600-900 on a surface topography machines. You are not getting anywhere near a 4000 surface. We just took my Soul from 500/4000 to 500/1000/2000 today and it added a bit of length and doesn't make as aggressive move in the mid.  The underneath grit plays a huge role if you do it the way Storm tells you, which is about 5 secs on 4 sides with the 4000. If you use the top grip too long or with too much pressure than it will negate what I'm explaining. There are some good posts on bowling chat that show the progression in grits and underneath surface.

Here is a list I found on Bowling chat:

Rated from most aggressive to more length less aggressive.
From the surface changes I have played with i would call this accurate, didnt sound right to me at first either until I tried it.

360/500
500
500/4000
500/2000
500/1000
1000
500/1000/4000
1000/4000
500/1000/2000
1000/2000
2000
500/1000/2000/4000
1000/2000/4000
2000/4000
4000
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 10:34:17 PM by vkowalski1970 »
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rustylegacy

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Re: Virtual Gravity Question
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2013, 12:44:53 AM »
I had a lot of success with both the VG and VG nano going from box to straight 2000. The 500/4000 surface reads more like 1000 and would burn up for me or be too early. By going 500/1000/2000 it made it get through the heads a bit better and read the midlane better for me. It still needs oil and will be considerably stronger than the Beserk. My soul which is about 3-4 boards weaker than my Nano is 3-4 boards stronger than the Beserk.

Not trying to argue but this makes no sense to me. 4000 was burning up and now 2000 clears the front? I play with covers more than anyone I know and to me this is impossible even with the extra step at 1000 in between.

As to the O.P. I have had a TON of equipment in that line and very few work well for me personally with shine on them. I had two V.G.'s that were tired and taking them down to 1000 helped them roll better. With your current arsenal I would try it at 1000-2000 grit to get it to read and roll better. Especially going to a tournament where you might see more oil.
It makes sense if you got a 500/"4000" Critical Theory that rolled at 20'. That surface looks like charcoal. Going through every grit gives more length.

ccrider

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Re: Virtual Gravity Question
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2013, 08:25:24 AM »
If you want help, you need to explain what the VG is doing, what surface you have it at, and what you want it to do.

MrNickRo

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Re: Virtual Gravity Question
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2013, 09:26:22 AM »
I ended taking it to 1000 before heading to bowling.  I went to put it in the machine to polish is, but it was out of order.

I decided that I will leave it at 1000 for specialty uses. it was about 3-4 boards stronger on the wood laned THS last night.  I could see traction the whole way down the lane, which will be nice if I end up needing it.

I typically try to play around 15 and end up moving to about 20 by the end of a set. If I really start struggling, I tend to move out to 5 and play as straight as possible and the 1000 VG should be perfect for that.

charlest

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Re: Virtual Gravity Question
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2013, 04:37:09 PM »
The peaks of the 500 stay larger and will make the ball grab harder than when you use the 1000/2000 over it, basically it takes more of the surface of the peak away. Keep in mind the 500/4000 surface is a very light 4000 over the top. The surfaces of ob nanos have read 600-900 on a surface topography machines. You are not getting anywhere near a 4000 surface. We just took my Soul from 500/4000 to 500/1000/2000 today and it added a bit of length and doesn't make as aggressive move in the mid.  The underneath grit plays a huge role if you do it the way Storm tells you, which is about 5 secs on 4 sides with the 4000. If you use the top grip too long or with too much pressure than it will negate what I'm explaining. There are some good posts on bowling chat that show the progression in grits and underneath surface.

Here is a list I found on Bowling chat:

Rated from most aggressive to more length less aggressive.
From the surface changes I have played with i would call this accurate, didnt sound right to me at first either until I tried it.

360/500
500
500/4000
500/2000
500/1000
1000
500/1000/4000
1000/4000
500/1000/2000
1000/2000
2000
500/1000/2000/4000
1000/2000/4000
2000/4000
4000

Boy, Mr. Kowalski, you sure opened up a can of worms with that chart.
And people think I am exaggerating when I suggest there are differences between simple grits like, 1000, 2000, 3000 and 4000!!!

As a simple example, a ball finished with 500 grit, then 4000 grit will be rougher, in average, in general, compared to a ball finished with 500, 1000, 2000, then 4000 grit. And this is only step 1. Things remain simple if you use both grit pads fresh and with the same amount of time on each side of the ball.

So, a 500 grit pad + a 4000 grit pad will basically become (500 + 4000)/2 or 4500/2 = 2250 grit. Complications arise when you do the 500 grit pad for 45 seconds and the 4000 grit pad for 15 seconds. You're using the 4000 grit pad for 1/3 the time that you use the 500 grit pad.
Is it logical then to say that (500 + (1/3 x 4000)/2 = 1833/ or approx. 900?
Let's assume so for argument sake.

If you change all those grit sequences using a similar formula, then what those sequence becomes, on average, reflects the order posted, I suppose. But that takes grit levels to an almost absurd level of complexity with differences, truly tiny. With so many of today's bowlers having fairly firm ball speed, differences in ball reaction are less obvious. If you have slower ball speed, the differences you will see will be more apparent, to some degree..

In addition, there's the human factor involved. Are the pads fresh, are you using the same pressure, are you timing every application? 
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MrNickRo

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Re: Virtual Gravity Question
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2013, 04:40:10 PM »
 :D

completebowler

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Re: Virtual Gravity Question
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2013, 11:30:04 PM »
Storm chart I have hanging in my shop over my spinner lists 500/4000 as one of their longer box preps. Just under 1500 polished and 3500 polished. My personal experince in tuning thousands of bowling balls has reinforced this chart.

Now I agree with charlest that if you go step by step all the way up then it will create a smoother cover and therefore more length. But Mr. K.....if we look at charlest formulation...which I agree with....then 500/4000 (equal pressure equal time) gets you to 2250.

Whereas 500/1000/2000 would give you first a 750 finish (500/1000) and then stepped up to a 1325 finish (750/2000). This is substantially lower than the 2250 result you get from 500/4000 and it reflects what I have personally seen.

I can almost shine a ball going step by step with every pad in the drawer....so I get what you're saying. I just disagree with your conclusion.

vkowalski1970

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Re: Virtual Gravity Question
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2013, 04:59:03 AM »
Again, not to argue, but if you read what Storm now tells you....30 secs at 500, 5 secs at 4000....the ball reads between 600-900 on a topography machine.....If you read my post, it states the if you go longer with the top grit it will negate what I was saying. I stated clearly that Storm now says 5 secs with 4000, not equal time......ofcourse if you spend equal time on the top grit you are rounding the peak more, thus allowing a smoother surface.

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completebowler

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Re: Virtual Gravity Question
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2013, 07:16:35 AM »
Again, not to argue, but if you read what Storm now tells you....30 secs at 500, 5 secs at 4000....the ball reads between 600-900 on a topography machine.....If you read my post, it states the if you go longer with the top grit it will negate what I was saying. I stated clearly that Storm now says 5 secs with 4000, not equal time......ofcourse if you spend equal time on the top grit you are rounding the peak more, thus allowing a smoother surface.



Okay I think we are on the same page then. I didn't see your comment about only using 4000 for 5 seconds. I use equal time on each grit so this is where we were on a different page.