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Author Topic: Ball suggestions and layouts for 2 hander  (Read 17870 times)

jonesybaseball

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Ball suggestions and layouts for 2 hander
« on: September 30, 2012, 02:47:45 AM »
Alright heres the deal pretty much. Im converting to throwing 2 hands permanently now and i need some ball and layout suggestions from anyone who throws 2 handed or coaches them. 2 handed has always been in my arsenal but was never accurate enough with it to try in league, then decided to say screw it and try it in league one time and shot 721. Here is my current arsenal and everything is pin up with cg barely kicked out or in the palm, Nano pearl, virtual energy, and fast. Now funny thing is my fast out hooks my VE, not sure how as they both have the EXACT same layout and fast even has polish on it. But i just dont have any dry lane equipment and with there not being an abundance of oil where i throw, i cant be lofting gutter caps in the 2nd game. Any suggestions welcome and please dont tell me to go back throwing 1 handed lol. 

 

Rightycomplex

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Re: Ball suggestions and layouts for 2 hander
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2012, 10:22:04 AM »
Jones,

Drilling for a two-hander is not difficult however, we will need stats in order to recommend layouts. Speed, rpms, tilt, AR, and lane conditions are the major issues. From what I've seen, the big thing with two handers is tilt. You can have an extremely high rev rate and have a high tilt which would be like drilling for your avg cracker or have a low tilt which makes the job a little more difficult because the ball gets to axis quicker. Speed also plays a factor. High speed allows you to throw more aggressive covers, while slow speed makes your ball choices few and far between. Just needs some stats to give you an accurate observation, especially being two-handed.
James C. Jones
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Russell

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Re: Ball suggestions and layouts for 2 hander
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2012, 11:28:46 AM »
Righty is dead on....two handed is the same as one handed from a ball motion standpoint.  You use revrate, speed, tilt, and PAP to lay the ball out just as you would for any other bowler.

jonesybaseball

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Re: Ball suggestions and layouts for 2 hander
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2012, 03:01:24 PM »
I actually remembered that right after i posted it, lol stupid me.. but ill find out tomorrow and ill get back with the stats and we can go from there

Gene J Kanak

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Re: Ball suggestions and layouts for 2 hander
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2012, 01:03:47 PM »
As a general comment from someone who did the two-handed thing, don't just look for "dry lane" balls. Those balls usually want to store energy and go nuts on the back, which you don't need as a two-hander. Definitely add a urethane ball to the equation, and consider using surface and earlier-rolling drillings on some medium stuff. That will get the ball reading earlier and smoother. You may be surprised how valuable that will be. Two-handed doesn't always mean swing it and bring it. Good luck to you!

jonesybaseball

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Re: Ball suggestions and layouts for 2 hander
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2012, 12:59:11 AM »
I know exactly what you mean with the dry lane balls, i have a fast that hooks more than my virtual energy. hard to believe probably but its true.

Rightycomplex

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Re: Ball suggestions and layouts for 2 hander
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2012, 04:53:34 AM »
I know exactly what you mean with the dry lane balls, i have a fast that hooks more than my virtual energy. hard to believe probably but its true.

That depends on lay out and the amount of oil seen by you. It sounds like not enough oil for the energy and with you being 2 handed and more than likely putting a boatload of rpms into the ball, the ball is burning up before it ever sees the breakpoint. While the fast, with a weaker cover, bleeds energy a lot slower, so the ball backends more. Dont confuse hook with backend. Hook is what you need for oil, backend is what you need to cover boards.
James C. Jones
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TWOHAND834

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Re: Ball suggestions and layouts for 2 hander
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2012, 11:01:47 AM »
Something else you may want to consider, coming from a fellow 2 hander, is dont be afraid to take something really weak and put the pin at 2 inches from your axis with the CG center or near center or your grip.  The weak cover will still help the ball through the front part of the lane and the 2 inch pin to axis will really tame down the backend.  I have an Ebonite Black Ice at 4000 abralon with this layout and it does wonders for me on shorter patterns and at times where I need some control on the backend.

At State Tournament this year, if I took anything with the pin 4.5-5 inches from PAP, I had to stand around 45-50 and play fairly deep (23-25 at the arrows).  When I took out my Black Ice, I could play around 13-15 at the arrows to start with and then migrate from there.
Steven Vance
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Former Classic Products Assistant Manager

jonesybaseball

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Re: Ball suggestions and layouts for 2 hander
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2012, 01:42:34 PM »
That is an interesting tip, thank you for that. Im trying to stick with storm and roto balls at the moment and was kinda wondering about getting really weak balls like the heats and breezes and putting extremely weak layouts on them so i can use them alot longer and not have to start around 25 or so. This is another thing i seen, when i throw with anything that has a ton of surface on it and dulled down my ball reaction is crap. When balls are polished up really well i seem to have a lot better reaction with them and are really hard off the spot which is what i like

TWOHAND834

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Re: Ball suggestions and layouts for 2 hander
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2012, 02:19:09 PM »
That is an interesting tip, thank you for that. Im trying to stick with storm and roto balls at the moment and was kinda wondering about getting really weak balls like the heats and breezes and putting extremely weak layouts on them so i can use them alot longer and not have to start around 25 or so. This is another thing i seen, when i throw with anything that has a ton of surface on it and dulled down my ball reaction is crap. When balls are polished up really well i seem to have a lot better reaction with them and are really hard off the spot which is what i like

You have to really pay close attention to that as you will learn as you go.  I too used to like the skid/flip type reaction and then a couple close friends of mine that run pro shops embedded into me for years that if I needed to change one thing, it would be for me to learn to use something with some control.  Man, I am glad I listened, albeit took awhile.  Storm may not be a bad way to go because their Breezes seem to be the weakest resins out there that have a core.  There is the Scout/R by Columbia but it has a pancake inside.  Ball speed is the single most important thing in relation to using 2 hands.  As long as ball speed is there, you can probably still use mid peformance line stuff like Arsons, Elevates, Endure, Eruptions, etc....  You may not see enough oil to use balls like the Lucid, Nanos, Encounters, etc...  BUT....I always say it is good to have one ball for each extreme; both wet and dry. 
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
Former Classic Products Assistant Manager