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Author Topic: X Factor Deuce first impressions  (Read 4824 times)

A_P_K

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X Factor Deuce first impressions
« on: August 26, 2003, 04:47:50 PM »
After taking Excaliber's advice on ball first impressions, I decided to post my thoughts on this "fabled" ball.

First off my initial feelings about the Deuce are not too great, I don't see where all the hype came from for such an average ball.  The drilling layout most likely is the factor of my dislikes, but that also is the advantage of why I'd keep it in my bag.

I originally wanted the Deuce drilled with the RAD in strong position, and I didn't care how the PIN or CG were laid out.  Since I didn't have any real plans on using it during competition I said, "What the hell."

When I picked up the Deuce it was laid out label with the RAD in the track.  I asked the driller why and he said I told him not to stack the PIN and CG, which is somewhat true, but I told him to put the RAD next to the thumb even if it meant a stacked drill.

I get on the lanes and I'm practicing with the Deuce to find out drilled this way there is virtually no recovery on medium oil, it has a small backend arc but the ball rolls as soon as I release it.  I don't have a solid resin ball that works this way so I will welcome it to my bag because it offers me the same control I get with my Track Enforcer, but when the lanes start to dry out.

The most disappointing aspect of the Deuce throughout the whole night was the carry.  Alot of people mention the ball doesn't leave corner pins, well they're right.  Although I left every other back row pin besides the ten pin.  I tried many different adjustments but nothing worked well enough to carry consistently.  The hit is nothing special because I've seen and thrown harder hitting equipment.

My overall first impression may not be to exciting, but I think it will fit in well, and I must get used to the Deuce and like.  I know in the future even if I still dislike the ball that it will be useful anyways.
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charlest

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Re: X Factor Deuce first impressions
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2003, 08:24:14 AM »
APK,

Remember the RAD (Mass Bias) is just a fine-tuning to the position of the pin, which is the primary drilling tool. While the MB in the track is not ideal for your speed and delivery (Yes, Strong should have been better for you!), where is the pin on this ball and what is the pin-CG distance? The pin should probably have been slightly to the right of the ring finger ...
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A_P_K

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Re: X Factor Deuce first impressions
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2003, 08:47:17 AM »
Charlest,

The pin is approximately one inch to the right of my ring finger a hair below it also.  The CG is approximately one inch to the right of grip center below my ring finger approximately two inches.  

The pin out distance is 3-4", I don't know the top weight of the ball.  The RAD is approximately 1/2" to the left and under my thumb hole.

Tommy didn't want to stack the drilling because I didn't want to chance any major over under issues, but the way it's drilled now it's very speed sensitive.  That being so, I really have to maintain a 15-16 MPH stroke using the Deuce.  Even if I come around the ball it barely moves five boards.  At the same time if I roll it too slow, it will over hook for me.  It is useful up the boards because that way I can play with some speed and still get the ball to the pocket.

He said I can bring it back in but I don't want another plug job on the ball so I'll leave it how it is.
--------------------
In the old days people used to cut wood with axes.....................now and days...............they just have Executioners do it for them!

Pin_Krusher IS a serious threat to modern day bowling wood as we know it today.
<b>The original Pin Krusher</b>

charlest

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Re: X Factor Deuce first impressions
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2003, 10:36:25 AM »
That drilling should be very stable ands very versatile for your PAP and your delivery. The pin is strong, but the MB is positioned for a control-type of backend. It might not be as early rolling compared to a the MB in a strong position, but it should work well for you.

Magic question: what is the surface? For you the stock surface, 1000 grit, should (I repeat, *SHOULD*) work well. You might even try slightly rougher, 800 grit. You might make sure with a grey nylon pad.

Just another quick thought: did you buy this used? Sometimes dull balls may die, THEN be sold. This was originally a dull oiler.
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A_P_K

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Re: X Factor Deuce first impressions
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2003, 10:46:56 AM »
Currently I do like the controlled drill pattern on it, but I heard "rumors" that this ball can hook through WD-40.  I guess I was a bit disappointed that this "legendary" ball is nothing much different than other equipment.  So what turned out to be an experiment may just end up benefiting my league bag.

Anyway when I picked this up from a fellow on here (used but great shape) the cover was beyond highly polished.  I asked him what he put on it because my Hook-it application almost beaded away on contact with the surface.  I was told the ball was polished on a spinner, so that explains why it was so hard to remove the shine.  I first hit it with two coats of Liquid Sandpaper to bring it down to 1000 grit, but even then it was too shiny for me.  After that I gently hit it with a green scotchbrite pad and if I had to guess it could be in the area of 800 grit matte considering all the polish on it.

I don't think the ball is dead by any means because it will hook, it's just a different path than I'm used to.  I only have early rolling particles for heavy oil and it's a bit unusual to have that in a medium oil reactive.

The ball was stated for medium oil anyways, so I can't expect it to hook across the boards.  Although it is a different look for the Deuce, I will make use of it in league play.
--------------------
In the old days people used to cut wood with axes.....................now and days...............they just have Executioners do it for them!

Pin_Krusher IS a serious threat to modern day bowling wood as we know it today.

Edited on 8/27/2003 11:07 AM
<b>The original Pin Krusher</b>

charlest

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Re: X Factor Deuce first impressions
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2003, 11:49:53 AM »
quote:
Currently I do like the controlled drill pattern on it, but I heard "rumors" that this ball can hook through WD-40.  I guess I was a bit disappointed that this "legendary" ball is nothing much different than other equipment.  


Maybe if you have a TON of revs. Basically it is a ball for medium to medium-heavy oil, depending on drilling and your delivery. I know one very high average guy down at HOwell who has his drilled stacked leverage for a LEFTY and he's righthanded. He uses it polished for medium light conditions!
 
quote:
Anyway when I picked this up from a fellow on here (used but great shape) the cover was beyond highly polished.  .... I first hit it with two coats of Liquid Sandpaper to bring it down to 1000 grit, but even then it was too shiny for me.  After that I gently hit it with a green scotchbrite pad and if I had to guess it could be in the area of 800 grit matte considering all the polish on it.


That's a good, very smart move in my book!

quote:
I don't think the ball is dead by any means because it will hook, it's just a different path than I'm used to.  I only have early rolling particles for heavy oil and it's a bit unusual to have that in a medium oil reactive.

The ball was stated for medium oil anyways, so I can't expect it to hook across the boards.  


And, if I'm not mistaken, that's not your style, to cover a ton of boards, that is. It is a good ball; make sure you have some head oil and use it the way your delivery and that drilling will allow. It will knock down pins.

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A_P_K

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Re: X Factor Deuce first impressions
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2003, 12:21:57 PM »
You're exactly right....I used to put alot of hand in the equipment I threw, but once I removed the inserts I didn't have to hit them as hard.

I also played deeper than I think I should have a few months back.  That style led me to be too inconsistent which brings me to using weaker equipment and moving outside.  Playing up between the first and second arrow is more consistent for me, I get less over under, and I carry a hell of alot more.

The Deuce will fit in well for my newly rennovated line.
--------------------
In the old days people used to cut wood with axes.....................now and days...............they just have Executioners do it for them!

Pin_Krusher IS a serious threat to modern day bowling wood as we know it today.
<b>The original Pin Krusher</b>

ReservoirDog

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Re: X Factor Deuce first impressions
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2003, 12:40:03 PM »
APK,

I don't post often, but something tells me that I should reply to your post.  I too own an XFactor Duece and my initial impressions of the ball was very similar to yours.  I bought my Duece new and initially kept it in its "out of box" condition.  The layout on my Duece is a 3.5 inch pin.  I used a 4&1/4 inch from PAP drilling.  The pin is located directly to the right of my ring finger at about a half inch.  The mass bias is in the strong position.  (The line from the pin to the CG to the MB reminds me of the "backslash key" or "\".  LOL!

The first time I bowled with the Duece I had a great night.  I averaged about 221 for about six games.  Needless to say, I was excited.  Slowly but surely, I learned the hard way that the Duece really likes to roll very early.  Regardless of hand position, my Duece would not react the way I thought it was supposed to.  My Duece would literally burn up and STOP hooking at about fifty feet.  And this was on fresh conditions and conditions with a little bit of carrydown.  At first I thought it may be the drilling.  Then I had to remind myself that I had success with the ball the first night.  On heavy oil the Duece would skate down the lane.  Totally frustating!  

Well as you can guess by now, things got worse with the Duece before they got better.  I started to lose confidence in what that ball could actually do.  Believe it or not, my Brunswick Inferno was outhooking the Duece.  Then I started to research and read reviews on how folks were complaining about how their Dueces would not react as well.  My own conclusion was even verified in my mind when Storm put out the XFactor "Reloaded".  The Duece officially became a P.O.S.  

Well, I was not satisfied.  I was not about to give up or sell a brand new ball.  I had noticed from many of the reviews that I read that folks were having success with the Duece AFTER they changed the box surface.  So, to make a long story short, that's what I did.  I recently had my Duece wet sanded down to 800 grit.  And now, it reacts better than when it came out of the box.  LOL!

I still think Storm messed up on the original Duece box surface.  That's why the Reloaded came out so fast.  (How can the Duece and Reloaded both be 1000 grit out of the box?...)  Go figure...  

Anyway, give the 800 grit wet sand a try.  (It will not be polished if done correctly.)  I think you'll start liking the way your Deuce reacts after that.  I sure did.  

Good Luck!

PEACE!  


Steven

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Re: X Factor Deuce first impressions
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2003, 12:42:01 PM »
Interesting topic. I just got a new Deuce two weeks ago. I laid mine out basically the way A_P_K originally intended for his -- 3-4 inch PIN, RAD in the strong position, PIN and CG stacked 1/2" directly to the right of the ring finger. And in reading his profile, our styles are remarkably similar.

My intent was to set up a ball to replace my trusty El Nino Gold (350+ games). The Gold provides heavy continuous roll that is uncharacteristic of reactives (more particle like), but still delivers a more 'reactive like' backend -- kind of the best of both worlds. I choose the Duece because it has the same ACCU-Tread cover as the Gold, and the cores are very similar. In fact, to avoid surprises, I set up the Duece exactly like my existing Gold.

The Deuce has delivered. The ball provides the same heavy continuous roll the Gold did when new, and I'm able to effectively throw the ball on fresh medium- heavy conditions. It's just a notch down in aggressiveness to my Columbia WOW, which I only use for heavier flat patterns.

A_P_K, the only explanations I can come up with to make sense of your experience is either the drill, or possibly your expectations. The Storm asymmetric cores are extremely sensitive to drill pattern, so that might explain some of the reaction differences we are seeing. As far as natural roll tendencies, the ball is really a particle in disguise. That's either good or bad depending in what you're looking for.

In a world of skid/snap reactives and particles that don't finish enough for the tastes of many, the Deuce is refreshing alternative. However, it may not be the alternative you expected.  


 


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A_P_K

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Re: X Factor Deuce first impressions
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2003, 01:00:50 PM »
Steven,

I would have to say it's my expectations of the Deuce that attribute to my experience so far.  With all the reviews I've read about the Deuce, it seems to be touted as a hook monster.....to put it plainly.

I only spoke to one person use throws the Deuce at a weekly BTH tourny I compete at that said the ball offers a continuous roll much like the one you stated.

The reaction I get is exactly what you and he mentioned it would be like.....like you said also is uncharacteristic of a reactive...much less a medium oil reactive.  Basically the read on the lanes surprised me from all the reports that it has a huge backend.

I do like it but word of mouth doesn't do any justice for this ball.  I guess this may be a case where this ball should be seen and not heard.
--------------------
In the old days people used to cut wood with axes.....................now and days...............they just have Executioners do it for them!

Pin_Krusher IS a serious threat to modern day bowling wood as we know it today.
<b>The original Pin Krusher</b>

Steven

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Re: X Factor Deuce first impressions
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2003, 01:32:06 PM »
A_P_K: It's interesting that folks/reviews have touted to you that the Deuce is a hook monster. I've certainly found that if I catch too much dry on a walled condition, the ball definitely jumps, but kept in the oil, the ball is all about control.

Along these lines, what convinced me finally get the Deuce was watching the ball thrown on PBA Pattern "B" (43' foot long oil pattern) in my scratch singles league. The ball was every bit as 'aggressive' in the oil as heavy particles others were throwing. But it was aggressiveness defined as heavy roll and control -- not total boards covered or snappy backend. If you go to the Storm website and view the predicted trajectory of the Deuce, Storm confirms this by illustrating a tighter arc.

As an aside, if you want more backend on heavier oil, take a look at the Columbia Pearl WOW. The particle pearl cover handles medium-heavy oil well, and retains enough energy for more 'pop' than the Deuce on the backend. I don't find one ball better than the other, just different balls for different purposes.


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C-G ProShop-Carl

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Re: X Factor Deuce first impressions
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2003, 01:35:26 PM »
APK,

I think the 800grit wet sand should work. However, you can do the sanding in a few different ways. First try to sand it in the direction of your track, that way the ball will not burn up, and this helps get a little more length. If that does not work, then sand it across the track, this will help it roll up sooner.

You should almost be able to get your desired reaction from coverstock adjustments. The drilling and layout are very important, but the coverstock usually determines the reaction you will get.

I know of many people that have not been happy with the X Factor line in gengeral. A friend of mine bought a duece and threw 5 games with it and it has been sitting in my pro shop since. He bought a Mutant a week later and got the reaction (not even so much reaction, but more carry and hit) that he wanted with the deuce. He is a Storm equipment guy so instead of trying the Mutant first he wanted the Deuce. He is just one example.

Goodluck with your test w/ 800 grit.
Carl Hurd

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A_P_K

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Re: X Factor Deuce first impressions
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2003, 01:40:12 PM »
Thanks for the sanding tips Excaliber.

Actually most of my equipment really jumps on the backend, so having the Deuce with more of a roll is definitely a welcome addition.  My only other control ball is my Track Enforcer drilled 5x4, but it's for heavier oil.  I have a Super Carbide that if I put anything on it I can pick up the ten pin on the next lane with it.

Overall I'm satisified with the early roll that it offers to complete my line up.

I guess Steven all of the reviews I've read from bowling ball reviews and a few from here are by far midleading......but it's cool....I'll get used to the Deuce soon enough.
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In the old days people used to cut wood with axes.....................now and days...............they just have Executioners do it for them!

Pin_Krusher IS a serious threat to modern day bowling wood as we know it today.
<b>The original Pin Krusher</b>

mumzie

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Re: X Factor Deuce first impressions
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2003, 01:52:31 PM »
One comment - when referring to the Deuce "out of box" condition - when I bought mine in April, there were two markedly different box finishes on the market. One was kinda dull, and the other was definitely shiny. Hopefully Storm has rectified this situation, but it sure made for a lot of confusion!
I've tweaked the surface on my deuce several times looking for a stronger reaction - but reading all of this thread convinces me that the deuce isn't what it first seemed to be.
When I first got the ball it hooked. A lot. A lot more than all but one ball in the current arsenal. But, after I had it for a while, it quit reacting that way. Of course, I've gone to a more aggressive release, so maybe it's overpowering the surface - I need to talk more to my pro shop guy about that one. When I back off some on the release, the ball does seem to work better for me.
Nonetheless - I've ordered a hook again system. The deuce will be the first ball in the chamber.
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Steven

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Re: X Factor Deuce first impressions
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2003, 01:58:11 PM »
quote:
I guess Steven all of the reviews I've read from bowling ball reviews and a few from here are by far misleading......but it's cool....I'll get used to the Deuce soon enough.


LOL! This is the subject of another topic, but you've illustrated just another example that 90% of the reviews (for all balls) are inaccurate. If you think about it, most folks who post reviews are writing from emotion instead of rational analysis. The only way to really know if a certain ball is going to be right is from the experience of owning many balls, from different manufacturers, and with different drills. Only then can subsequent purchase decisions be made rationally and with confidence.
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