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Author Topic: RIsing Drilling Question....  (Read 2592 times)

DukeHarding

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RIsing Drilling Question....
« on: November 20, 2007, 03:17:00 PM »
I decided to keep, and re-drill the thumb on one of the pre-drilled Risings I bought.

This is the layout

Label Specs....


Question: with a starting TW of 2 oz...Why would the wt. hole be as big as it is drilled? also fingerhole depths? Wouldn't be for legal static weights?


I'm plugging the thumb and lengthening the span (1.2"). \Keeping the other bowlers layout.
He is a lower track stroker, and did not like the ball reaction at all.

My PAP is 5-3/8, 1/4" up...

Any ideas?

TIA,
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Duke Harding

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Moon57

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Re: RIsing Drilling Question....
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2007, 01:55:16 AM »
Mark, how do you put a 1 1/4" hole in the ball with no chamfer, since USBC says the hole can't be bigger than 1 1/4" including chamfer, without voiding the warranty on the ball?  Just curious.
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Moon
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So many questions, so little time but I'm having fun.
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Mark T. Trgovac

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Re: RIsing Drilling Question....
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2007, 02:40:36 AM »
quote:
Mark,

I'm sorry you believe this ball re-writes any rules. I hate to tell you but that is just marketing. I am not bashing the ball at all, as a matter of fact I think it is one of the better balls on the market right now. The marketing plan for the ball I have a very different opinion of though.

The contour rings you are referring to are due to the ball being dynamically elliptical. While the Rising is a large mass core with a high intermediate differential it is not the first ball to have elliptical contours and will not be the last. These contours are kind of an Rg map of the core dynamics or as some of us describe represent the ellipse of inertia of the core. By the way we've been Rg mapping cores in this manner for years, just because you've just been exposed to it does not mean it's a new procedure.

If you would like I can provide data for you which will show how the holes we drill into a ball alter the Rg and thus the contours. And when I say holes I mean any hole, any size and any depth. It's just this simple, the bigger and deeper the hole the more mass is removed and the Rg is altered the most. There is nothing magical about a 1.25" hole drilled 3" deep, fact is that it will alter the dynamics more than a smaller hole but that small hole will still change the drilled Rg and thus the on lane characteristics of the ball. This has been proven and documented for many different balls and does follow the rules of physics. Saying that a hole smaller than 1.25" drilled 3" deep does not alter the drilled balls dynamics does not follow the laws of physics, this is clear.




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Precision


I didnt say the Rising was the first ball to have contours, I said it was the only one that is shown to have ones that doesnt have them go completly out of whack when you get to a specific area on the ball. They start to reform about half way though. Much like a symetrical ball does only they are not circle contours they stay in the elipse form.

I also dont think it is marketing with the weight hole statement that was said at the seminar, because if it was a major marketing thing it would be stated with ball layouts to the general public. The statement Ron made was that if you have a ball with specs out of the target specs, say like my rising where the pin is 5". That you dont have to worry about the weight hole altering the reaction of the suggested layout. He stated because to alter the reaction with the weight hole to where it will signifigantly alter the reaction shape of the ball it would have to be a weight hole size of at least 1 1/4" and 3" deep. I find this to be true because aftr I put the weight hole in mine, I lost nothing in reaction from the pre-weight hole reaction. I am not sayig that a weight hole wont alter the dynamics of the ball.

I never said it wouldnt I said that the only way that a weight hole in the rising will alter the reactions of the rising is if the weight hole is at least 1 1/4" and 3" deep. This is what I stated in my first post to this thread, that a weight hole on the rising will only alter reaction if it is a 1 1/4" bit that is 3" deep.

quote:
Mark, how do you put a 1 1/4" hole in the ball with no chamfer, since USBC says the hole can't be bigger than 1 1/4" including chamfer, without voiding the warranty on the ball? Just curious.
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Moon
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So many questions, so little time but I'm having fun.


I never said it had to have no bevel. Tell me this, if bevel made the hole completly over the 1 1/4 limit then how can you slightly bevel a 1 1/4 hole and then still have to force a 1 1/4 thumb slug into it. If what you say holds truth it should fall right into the hole. The amount of bevel you put can be so little it wont change the size but it can unsharpen the edge of that hole. Now I have seen to much bevel be used and a slug fall in but it wont fall in all the way without some kind of extra force. So if I had to say how do you get a 1 1/4 hole with bevel. I would say you take a 1 1/8 hole and then just use a sander to get it bigger. Yet I would never do that unless it was called for it where you had to get out over 2+oz. out of the ball.


So Precision, I agree that any hole changes dynamics. However I know from watching many of the rising being used that the weight hole placement and size of the ones I have seen used have yet to alter the pre-weight hole reaction. I even say this on mine that I used a 7/8 bit that went 2.25 inches into my ball. I had no change in the reaction. Now on another ball I did this with it gave me some negative weight and my ball picks up a little sooner. Yet not on the rising, there has been no change in the reaction.
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Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
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Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
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Mark T. "Scoot" Trgovac
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Mark T. Trgovac

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Re: RIsing Drilling Question....
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2007, 02:31:40 AM »
Look I dont care about legal stuff about the weight hole. How 1 1/4 is the biggest you can have. I am saying that Ron told us at our seminar, that the only way you can alter reaction on a rising with a weight hole. Is to use a 1 1/4 hole that goes 3 inches deep. So to alter the dynamics of the ball enough to where the contours change enough to cause the reaction to change you must have to take this much out of the ball. I also never said that a weight whole with any part over 1 1/4 was legal. Yet if you ask me if you have to use a 1 1/4 to get the weight out of a ball. You went with a really out there layout on a ball with specs that didnt meet what you wanted.
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Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.
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Mark T. "Scoot" Trgovac
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DukeHarding

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Re: RIsing Drilling Question....
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2007, 07:25:25 AM »
I took the ball in and had it weighed.
The statics were all legal. 1/2 oz. of side wt., little finger, can't remember the TW.

I had my driller open the thumb enough so I could throw the ball, even though the span is about 1/2 shorter than my span.

I threw the ball3 times, it reacted well, not as big  a hooking ball, as I thought it would be.
I'm sure that is due to the ball not fitting and also being a pound heavier than I normally roll.

After 3 shots I could feel the tear in my bicep tendon (again).
I decided to sell the ball. It's now on ebay. I will eventually pick up a 14 pound Rising. Ball does have great continuation at the pin deck. Hard hitting ball.
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Duke Harding

Bowling Balls in my eBay Store...
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