Post by: Aristotle on August 13, 2004, 03:01:20 AM
Post by: icetink on August 13, 2004, 10:16:49 PM
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-icetink
Post by: Lane Bed on August 14, 2004, 12:42:24 AM
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EvEryOnE rOlls OvEr thE lanE bEd
Post by: tenpinspro on August 15, 2004, 11:59:32 AM
I definitely agree with Precision, Ice and LB. It wouldn't make sense to polish the stronger ball because that would only bring it down to the level of the weaker one. To get a better separation from the 2, I always recommend polishing the weaker ball to place it in the med range and let the stronger one do the job it was intended for. In this case, my Rule is much stronger than my Untamed. Hope this helps....
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Rick Leong
Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl. - Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
Vise Inserts Staff
Post by: Aristotle on August 15, 2004, 11:23:30 PM
Post by: tenpinspro on August 17, 2004, 04:46:36 AM
It depends on the reaction that you want out of them, I just mentioned in another thread that the Morpheus cores are very versatile and will react exactly the way you drill them. Let us know what reaction you want and we'll try and help...
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Rick Leong
Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl. - Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
Vise Inserts Staff
Post by: Aristotle on August 17, 2004, 12:20:32 PM
Post by: tenpinspro on August 18, 2004, 05:42:23 AM
I'd definitely keep the Rule strong, I have mine at 4.25x4(mb strong) and it just won't quit. I'd probably say drill the Untamed at a 5x4(mb strong pos) and polish it to give it some additional length like the other guys have recommended as well. With the polish and mb strong on the Untamed, that should make it fit nicely into the med/med to med/lite oil ball. Hope this helps...if you need anything else, feel free to pm me...or Ex(makes him feel wanted)...lol
Rick
Post by: Aristotle on August 18, 2004, 09:41:21 PM
You know that if I usually have questions it's right to you, Rick. haha!
Post by: loose5682 on August 18, 2004, 09:49:21 PM
On edit:
What I mean is, if he puts the ring on the AU under the fingers, would that make an overall "weaker" (and I say weaker meaning not as much TOTAL hook, the thing is still gonna hook) reaction whereas putting the pin above the fingers on the Rule would keep it quite strong?
Enlighten us all please Carl and Rick :-)
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Andrew Loose
"King of Them All"
"Evolutionary. Revolutionary."
Edited on 8/18/2004 9:44 PM
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on August 19, 2004, 01:21:12 AM
Rick's statement of drilling the Untamed with a strong MB and adding polish to the cover should work nicely. The polish will add length, but the strong MB placement will contribute to have it lay off a bit in the backend thus making it and the Rule a very good 1-2 punch.
Andrew,
In general thought placing the pin above the fingers usually makes it snap more. If for example you were to take identical balls and drill one with the pin above the bridge and the other with the pin below the bridge the difference in reaction that you will see is that the pin below the bridge ball will start up a bit sooner and give more of an arc/snap where as the other ball will give you more of a skid/snap. Naturally on oil the arc snap is going to hook more, but on a fresh house shot skid/snap can easily cover more boards and most of that comes in the backend.
Particularly when I am drilling a Morpheous Core I prefer to keep the pin low because according to Del (and Mo Pinel), drilling an asymmetrical ball and keeping the pin low helps to take advantage of the core's strength. I tested this theory with 2 Phenoms directly after that clinic I attended where Mo and Del were both there and the ball with the pin low (same MB placement BTW) hooked much sooner, still retained a good backend and hit harder than the other one.
the example above that I listed is basically in terms of a symmetrical ball.
I hope I answered that in a good enough way that you understand it. Sometimes I ramble a bit. If I didn't, just message me and I will try to explain it better.
-EX-
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Owner/Operator
C-G Pro Shop
Post by: tenpinspro on August 19, 2004, 06:14:17 AM
I really can't describe it better than my fellow "staff" member.
Characteristics of any ball is that a pin out will go longer than a pin in before it reacts. It boils down to simple "imbalance". Imagine having 2 controlling weights in a ball(pin&cg), if the weights are separated apart (2-3) inches, this would create more of a wobble effect in the ball. One weight would move, then the other which helps create more imbalance. More imbalance creates wobble, more wobble creates skid.
Now imagine the 2 controlling weights set right next to each other(pin 0-1). Regardless where you put a grip to this, the weights are going to work in unison creating less wobble or "imbalance". Less imbalance allows a ball to get into a roll sooner.
This is why static weights (pos side, finger, thumb..etc) were so important in old balls without weightblocks. Other then the pancake top, the side weights helped create "imbalance" in the object to help make it wobble and create skid then hook. Drill it over the label or cg and the ball had no imbalance so it rolled early and even....hope this helps or just give me a holler.
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Rick Leong
Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl. - Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
Vise Inserts Staff
Post by: Aristotle on August 19, 2004, 11:56:41 AM
Post by: Aristotle on August 19, 2004, 11:58:04 AM
Post by: tenpinspro on August 19, 2004, 12:23:20 PM
Sorry for the confusion, I wasn't referring to asymmetrical balls. I was just trying to answer Loose's question in a general manner. Placement of controlling weights in a ball basically do 2 things, either we assist the reaction of a ball or we delay the reaction. Just trying to give a bigger picture of the puzzle vs a piece here and there...
Rick
Post by: Aristotle on August 19, 2004, 02:50:58 PM
quote:
I'd definitely keep the Rule strong, I have mine at 4.25x4(mb strong) and it just won't quit. I'd probably say drill the Untamed at a 5x4(mb strong pos) and polish it to give it some additional length like the other guys have recommended as well. With the polish and mb strong on the Untamed, that should make it fit nicely into the med/med to med/lite oil ball. Hope this helps...if you need anything else, feel free to pm me...or Ex(makes him feel wanted)...lol
It seems here that you use the CG in the weighting of the ball which doesn't seem to make much sense to me in a mass bias ball. Also, I have a pretty low track, so getting that type of pin to PAP distance tends to place the CG in negative territory. I'll fiddle around with it when I take a look at the ball though. Fortunately I was able to find someone local who I think that I can trust with new stuff. We will soon see.
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on August 19, 2004, 03:46:33 PM
SO I am sure that is what he was talking about. He will chime in again soon.
-EX-
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C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio
cgproshop@yahoo.com
Track Advisory Staff
Post by: tenpinspro on August 19, 2004, 04:33:11 PM
Sorry again Aris, Ex knows me very well and I am referring to the mb on the second measurement. I also apologize about my figures, I was using mine as an example and then went off that as well for a different look on the Untamed.
If your track is lower(I won't know numbers), the look I'm basically trying to relate for the Rule is to place the pin next to or under ring area and (yes)keep the mb in a stronger position as it was strong arc/snap that you desired originally, not early or late roll. Then take the Untamed and place the pin out over the ring area and keep the mb in the same strong position but polish this ball as well. This should give it better length with the longer pin and and the mb placement should obtain the backend that you're looking for.
It's difficult to say how far above midline the pins should be placed without knowing your span. That's another way of describing where the pin can go. Hope this explains things but if I blew it again, pls just let me know...
Thanks Ex..exactly why I wanted you on board with me..help cover for me when my brain's on vacation
Rick
Post by: Aristotle on August 19, 2004, 08:50:04 PM
Edited on 8/19/2004 8:45 PM