Author Topic: The Phoenix.. (Read 5940 times)

tenpinspro · « **on:** March 09, 2007, 05:36:55 AM »

Per discussions with Ron Hickland (Ball Tech and Designer) and Bob Reid (VP of Marketing), Ebonite is in the business of manufacturing bowling equipment to the highest quality possibility. They explained to me in detail their extensive testing process and what criteria they feel a product needs to perform at prior to release. Unfortunately, the Phoenix did not meet these requirements.

It wasnâ€™t simply about business and money. They could have produced or released the Phoenix and taken the profits from this. But again, the ball did not meet their standards to what they considered to be in their â€œhighâ€ performance category. Instead, they are taking a loss on this project which made me appreciate what they are really trying to do there. Iâ€™ve never seen a company turn away money so this was a surprise to me but has reassured me that Ebonite is sticking to their guns regardless of gains or loss.

Ron has already begun the process of designing a few cores for the new Track line and I have offered my input to him in regards to reactions as well that our loyal Track fans are accustomed to. Just hang in there guys, there are many new and exciting things that Ebonite has planned for us. I will most likely be making a trip to Kentucky to see much of this firsthand and Iâ€™ll keep you informed with the progress. Thanks for being patient.....
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

Edited on 3/9/2007 2:35 PM

tenpinspro · « **Reply #31 on:** March 12, 2007, 11:38:55 AM »

Just to clear the air...posted on 2/24/07
http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?CategoryID=2&ForumID=14&TopicID=155160&PageNum=2

tenpinspro
Posted: 2/24/2007 1:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it is sad. The ball is very nice from what Carl has been relaying to me. He's been shooting lights out in a few different houses with this piece. I never did receive mine. They said they under produced due to large distributor buy ins which (business wise) if I were Ebonite, I'd fulfill these orders at San Antonio (because Col can duplicate these without a problem), keep my distributors happy which in turn would keep the public happy. After this, proceed with my own designs for the future, doesn't that make more sense instead of losing out on all the sales that your customers want? I don't know guys....makes me think twice about joining this team.

A piece of inside info, reps from companies are pumped to push product to distributors (not easy to do). Distributors have learned in the past that some pieces will sell well and some don't, simple as that. They get stuck blowing out and losing money on some pieces so when you have a very good distributor buy-in (a manufacturer's primary customer), it's very important to keep that customer happy, right?

I feel Phil has made a very good piece here, get yours while you can. I'm still going to try...
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

===============================================================================

tyrone>>> please read>>> "their extensive testing process and what criteria they feel a product needs to perform at prior to release"

these are his words>>>>> now to me, it makes the ball out to be a non performer.

to reiterate:

quote:
I feel Phil has made a very good piece here, get yours while you can. I'm still going to try...

In actuality JLS, these "are" their words. With no disrespect to Phil (newguy) whatsoever, I was simply relaying some information that I thought would be helpful. I already posted my thoughts earlier.

It's probably no different then if Chevrolet bought Ford and felt their product didn't meet their criteria as well. Everybody has their own standards and way of doing things. I assume this is why I was chosen to fly to Kentucky to see their (Ebonite) operations and to get a better understanding of what and how they do things there.
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

jls · « **Reply #32 on:** March 12, 2007, 01:20:03 PM »

quote:
If the Phoenix did not meet Ebonite's high standards, how
do they explain some of the crap balls that they have
put out in the past? The Phoenix is a good ball, better
than most of the stuff that I have seen from Ebonite.
There is a strange distance between marketing and truth.

jdt, good point.
--------------------
jls31316

cnimsk · « **Reply #33 on:** March 12, 2007, 01:25:59 PM »

All I can say is this. I'll take what Ron Hickland said and just move on. I believe it's more of a case of "I can do better" than the Phoenix being of lesser quality. However...that just an opinion, based on nothing but my feeling. Nothing more. He's been designing really quality equipment for both Hammer and Ebonite as of late and, I, for one, am excited at what he might come up with for Track. At least it's obvious that Track lives and will live. That's a good thing.

Chuck

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #34 on:** March 12, 2007, 01:42:53 PM »

As I stated before.....we need to be patient. Mr Hickland is designing for 4 companies, maybe 5. So I wouldn't expect anything before June/July.
--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio

Tag Team Member #1

TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder

RDS · « **Reply #35 on:** March 13, 2007, 10:01:38 AM »

I believe Ebonite has a lot on their plate and probably just diddn't want or have the situation, facility or man power to expend on the Phoenix. I like Carl & Rick and it is sad to see so much bickering on a website.
--------------------
Current Arsenal:
Power Machine
Strike Machine
Machine
Arsenal Artillary
Angular Artillary
Rule Delta 1
Inertia
Heat Blast

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #36 on:** March 13, 2007, 12:01:54 PM »

RDS.......some bickering-------but remember:

The LEGION LIVES ON!!!!!
--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio

Tag Team Member #1

TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder

jls · « **Reply #37 on:** March 13, 2007, 12:57:14 PM »

quote:
RDS.......some bickering-------but remember:

The LEGION LIVES ON!!!!!
--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio

Tag Team Member #1

TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder

RDS, why do you feel it is bickering, the way i see it is simple.
we have two companies who produce their balls in a different manner.
as i have said, it does not make sense for ebonite to try to duplicate these balls. they are smart for not doing that. and in time, i am sure that they will bring out their version.

now as for the "meet their standards" thing. in the past two days, every customer who when asked this question, answered the same.

when a company says a product does not meet their standards, what does this mean to you? so far, all have answered the same. must be a lower quality.

now no where is there any explaination by ebonite as to what they meant.
did it really mean they felt the ball was of a lower quality?
did it mean it was not a product that they felt they could easily reproduce?
did it mean it was too costly?

having had much success with columbia/track products, i do not feel that they are of lower quality. having sold the big shot well since it's release, i certainly don't feel it's of lower quality. and i feel the same way about the phoenix. even tho we never received any from our dist. to sell.

so far today, we have sold two big shots. and one was to a customer who bought a big shot 1 week ago. he loved it. yet he told me this. that at his local bowling alley the word is that the big shot is no good, and ebonite will not make any more of them. so once the big shots made by columbia are gone, their gone.

and this is why i take exception to the "meet their requirements" comment.
i feel it is a little mis leading. this is a good quality release, and i believe that the phoenix would have been also. and the feedback that i have seen on the phoenix has all been positive.

and again, don't blame ebonite for not trying to make this ball at this time.
their coverstocks are doing extemely well. last thursday we received a double order on the tnv. when my girl was checking they in, she informed me of this. since it was the tnv, no need to panic. need to re order again today.

no knock on rick or carl or ron.
--------------------
jls31316

Edited on 3/13/2007 1:01 PM

Author Topic: The Phoenix.. (Read 5940 times)

tenpinspro

The Phoenix..

tenpinspro

Re: The Phoenix..

jls

Re: The Phoenix..

cnimsk

Re: The Phoenix..

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: The Phoenix..

RDS

Re: The Phoenix..

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: The Phoenix..

jls

Re: The Phoenix..