Post by: dw23 on June 05, 2006, 04:37:47 AM
I wanted to get everyones opinion on controlling dry midlanes. I know how to change hand positions to tame my ball reaction but do you use particle or reactive and do you use pearl or solid.
Thanks everyone,
DW
Post by: The SuperHitMan on June 05, 2006, 01:00:14 PM
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Opponent: Its fun to bowl against bowlers who just spray the lanes!
K.C.: Thats not my style.
Opponent: Oh but Iv'e seen you play!
K.C.: Then you would make smarter comments.
Opponent:
K.C.: Lets fight
Opponent:
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Opponent:
WTFK.C.: Lesson learned.
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or Go Home...Shwosh-The SuperHitMan Post by: LuckyLefty on June 05, 2006, 01:41:10 PM
Like Rotofan says...this is how many of our bowlers are solving this problem that is constant in my home house!
(Most look like Crap) the condition makes it so.
My observation...many use highly polished or waxed solid...seem to be smoother.
The pearls both pearl particles and pearl reactives bounce extremely hard on these harsh dry borders!
Or highly polished or waxed light load solid particles.
Curious.
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: dw23 on June 07, 2006, 02:17:22 AM
Post by: dizzyfugu on June 07, 2006, 05:04:53 AM
Another ball for shorter patterns, when even the EPP burns up, is my Sahara - much to my surprise. Probably due to the strong core this ball goes long and makes a very consistent break point movement, easy to control and handle with speed and hand adjustments.
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Post by: tenpinspro on June 07, 2006, 01:15:32 PM
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Post by: dw23 on June 07, 2006, 02:52:08 PM
tenspinpro: I look forward to hearing your comments.
I made a mistake on the drill pattern of the Slash I just drilled. It's drilled 5x5.5 with the pin over the ring finger. I polished it so I hope this helps control the mid-lane.
Thanks,
DW
Post by: tenpinspro on June 19, 2006, 11:34:24 AM
quote:
tenspinpro: I look forward to hearing your comments.
DW, tried the angular out for a bit but when the shot breaks down, it's just TOO dry for even this layout. I need appoximately 1-1.5 mph to match up just to my stroker hit to get the ball downlane. If I don't hold speed, it's gone...dead left. If I ride the line with anything, guaranteed corner....oh well, back to the drawing board.
I still have to try out the Slash, I'm also bringing my Flaming "T", Unleashed(OOB) and Robo this week to see if I can play in the oil with either one of those 2.
Seem to be experiencing the same problems LaneBed had last year...
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Post by: dw23 on June 19, 2006, 12:39:29 PM
It's funny but he only ball that I have had any success with has been the old Hex Darkside. I hit it with a heavy coat of magic shine and it still checked a little early. I put it in a luster king for 5 minuets and that seems to have done the trick. I will put it to the test this weekend at a house that is notorious for dry midlane and back end.
Thanks again,
DW
Edited on 6/19/2006 12:36 PM
Post by: chitown on June 19, 2006, 11:50:58 PM
Post by: dw23 on June 20, 2006, 01:58:38 AM
Thanks,
DW
Edited on 6/20/2006 1:56 AM
Post by: chitown on June 21, 2006, 09:46:14 AM
quote:
I think the Desert Heat has not worked because the pearl cover is a little too jumpy for me off the dry. If you change speeds you can shoot it through the break. We still have head oil it's just the Midlane that had dried up.
Thanks,
DW
Edited on 6/20/2006 1:56 AM
How is yours drilled? My desert heat is drilled with the pin above the bridge 5.5" from pap and the cg kicked right to 1oz os side and no balance hole. Mine acts like a spare ball but with a little bit better hit. If there's any oil mine just slides forever.
Post by: dw23 on June 21, 2006, 02:14:35 PM
Thanks,
DW
Post by: chitown on June 23, 2006, 12:02:28 AM
quote:
That's kind of my point Chitown. My Desert Heat is sensitive to friction and oil. If there is a lot of friction it will hook a lot for me but if there's any oil it becomes very erratic. For that reason I would rather not use it until the pattern dries evenly.
Thanks,
DW
DW your right about this point. My DH does the same thing. If the lanes are really dry through out then this ball reacts very well. I can get it to hook good but not over react. Just a smooth arc to the pocket. Now if there is any oil out there it just slides. Now if I were to have drilled it strong I may have had better results when it hit some oil but who knows.
I used to have another DH and had it drilled label leverage. Great reaction but at the time was too much for what I wanted it for.
I'm thinking of dulling it down and polishing it with a matte polish. I figure this will allow it to react a little better with spotty light oil but still be smooth and controllable.
I really think this is the ball for these patterns. I feel some cover work will get the ball to where it needs to be for this pattern.
Post by: dw23 on June 23, 2006, 01:53:14 AM
Thanks,
DW
Post by: tenpinspro on June 23, 2006, 08:55:36 AM
Move pairs (bowl 2 more), went thru the bag on game 3 where breakdown comes in bad and I shoot a whopping 140ish...what the heck is going on?...I used to be somebody...LOL Last game, (bowling against a cranker w/speed), I decide to chase his line, only problem....I'm about 6-8 boards deeper then him cause of my speed, 45 swinging to 5-6 at 52 feet and about 51-52 on the other lane over the gutter to about 8-9. I put together a turkey like this...it's nuts man, I can't do this...even when I was young and hooked the ball, I never hooked the ball like this (nobody did, urethane didn't move like this). I think I'm going to try the Robo and/or GP2 in the oil this next Tues. If I don't hit some kind of dry, it's a ring 10 and if I hit dry, I stone something....wonderful.
In talking with MSC last nite, we have the same shot and somewhat of the same problem as well. I'll keep you posted bud...
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Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on June 25, 2006, 09:15:36 PM
I am kind of having the same type of problem that you and Rick are facing. The one house where I am bowling league this summer the mids go quick...but the place is O/U generally to start. LENGTH is definately needed. I think a Blast with the pin 6-6 1/2 inches from PAP might be the answer. I am going to try to drill one up this week and will try to get back to you on it. The Darkside drilled that way would have worked perfectly....I had one drilled 6 1/4 from PAP and it went forever when the heads and mids started to go.
-Carl
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Post by: Brickguy221 on June 25, 2006, 09:23:01 PM
quote:
First 2 games get slammed by a guy who has 8 revs (he shoots 250/240), I go 220 and 20_? ) Tried the Unleashed inside more and I didn't miss the pocket leaving 10's, hit the dry, solid 9's and stone 7's...4-9, you name it.
Well Rick, ya shuda kept the Heat.....
That ball rocks....
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Brick
Post by: dw23 on June 25, 2006, 10:46:22 PM
Keep me posted. I'm interested in what you find. I have a little more ball speed than you and a little more hand than you which makes the transition even worse.
Ex,
The Darkside works great as long as I keep the wax fresh on the cover. I was also thinking of trying the Heat Blast with a 5" pin to pap. Really want to know if the Equation will go a little longer than the Blast before I commit to one over the other.
Thanks guys for the responses. I've been having this problem for about a year now. I've worked on increasing my speed in these situations which has helped but it's not the best solution.
As always together we will beat this.
DW
Post by: some_kid on June 25, 2006, 11:10:47 PM
Basically, I'm just trying to say that If you haven't already tried playing every part of the lane with several different balls then thats what you need to be doing.
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\m/
Post by: LuckyLefty on June 26, 2006, 05:16:59 PM
Same condition I've struggled on for two years.
Had my son there yesterday and he couldn't believe it...and he can flame it!
He said this is the worst place I've ever bowled!
As stated above...guys with 6 or 8 revs and up the back and speed can kill it!
Any side roll and lack of speed...one must play deep can't carry and the speed bleeds off SSOOOOOOO fast.
Loft and lots of it works.
Pattern is 16 feet of oil...30 feet of bony and then carrydown...yuck!
Speed, loft, spinners or no revvers love it! Rubber sometimes works!
I use highly waxed Particle solids...like Icon2.... A friend does great with a every day waxed WMB only about 10 minutes a day.
Usually all pearls are way too jumpy...but recently I put a post on flip richard on a Hot Rod original pearl Pin 3 3/8 up way high and cg back towards grip center...skipped the midlane and then flipped smooth and hard thru the carrydown at back.
I've gone to a 40 regular oiled league and skying up in average fast and hard.
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: tenpinspro on June 26, 2006, 05:47:45 PM
quote:
AHHHH Haaaa...Glad to hear it...Glad to hear it!
Same condition I've struggled on for two years.
That's just plain mean LL....
..hahaIt's like I forgot how to bowl...or just forgot how to score and eveyone else (house guys) are just bing banging along whacking me left and right....lol
Now I get looks like, "THAT guy owns a shop?!"....LOL
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DW, gonna try another 2-3 balls tomorrow, I'll keep you posted bud....
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Post by: LuckyLefty on June 27, 2006, 11:32:04 AM
My son went with me the other day to this center and shot about 3 balls...and he is fast...he said..."Why would anyone bowl here?" My reply "masochism!".
Oh one little other thing.
We do have guys occassionally use the dry heat and do ok.
The other answer for me is storm's great Hot Rod Super Sport Pearl(not really pearly acting) with WAX...pin over ring and stacked and waxed( seems to skip the mids pretty good and has a ton of continuation and backend regardless of carrydown of fresh) great coverstock.
I've almost done well with ball and drill.
I'm thinking of moving pin evev weaker on another!
REGards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: loose5682 on June 27, 2006, 11:48:29 AM
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Post by: tenpinspro on June 27, 2006, 01:56:30 PM
quote:
I like LL's idea of the highly polished/waxed particle solid, Rick, can you get your hands on a HexPlosion? Pin out near axis, maybe a nice 1x1 layout,
haha...that sounds like the advice I gave you in the past...
But you're right, that may work. My old one was a 15, kind of hard finding a 14...thanksDug up my old Money yesterday at the shop and I'm going to try my Delta 1 on this as well. Money against the oil line and Delta 1 to play like a cranker (without cranker skills...lol) stand left, throw right....let's see what happens.
The dry starts for me in the heads because of my slower speed so that pushes me left. Pushing me left means I have to get it back right or carry is VERY difficult. As LL says....masochism....pure masochism....
I really hate getting booted off in the middle of a response, BR says they don't know what the problem is...
--------------------
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Post by: tenpinspro on July 02, 2006, 11:41:54 AM
As I told you guys, I brought my Delta 1 to try on this over/under condition. I went 276, 190 move pairs 258 and 227...951. My highest set there by far...
Here's what the ball gave me and I can wait to try the Mean Machine on this cause I think it'll offer me a similar reaction. The Delta 1 helped me push pass the dry midlane broke back at the later breakpoint that I needed AND carried.
After 2 games, this shot gets burned from the heads down at about 14 out, anything will tend to react too quick and lean against the line for ring 10's...consistently. This time against the line and stroking more vs lift, the Delta 1 was able to still push downlane but carried on the oil. I didn't think about it but it made a lot of sense after watching it react. In my vids (still in my profile), you can see this ball split the 8-9 on normal shots so it gave me the stronger finish I needed compared to my normal equipment to carry out the corners.
Last week I went 750 on this same shot and come back 200 over that because of the right ball.....simply amazing. This is where the game's at today guys, picking the right ball for the condition has become so crucial in "scoring". So don't kill yourself over not scoring on a particular condition, you may simply not have the right ball.
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Post by: Juggernaut on July 02, 2006, 12:26:42 PM
I too have tried almost every ball I have, including my old urethanes and plastics, but they have not been the answer. I get the length I am after, but little on the backends due to the carrydown and leave 10's all night long.
I am SO tired of bowling. It used to be a relatively simple game where the playing field was pretty level. It still can be, IF you have the right ball at the right time, but it has gotten to the point where the options are almost endless and I don't have the money or the means to have 50 different balls with 50 different drills on them, hoping that I happen to have the "right" ball at the "right" time.
Has anybody come up with a combination of ball and drill pattern that is versatile enough to be used on a very wide set of conditions? One that will hook a little in the oil, but still clear a burned out spot without reading it and rolling out?
This isn't a wish to go back to the old days, but things WERE much simpler then. You had a limited set of options and everybody had to operate withing those. If the conditions got tough, they were EQUALLY tough for everyone, there was no "right" ball for some of those conditions, you just had to be able to outperform the competition, not out guess them and hope you got lucky.
If, by some miracle, someone has had any success finding something that seems to work on virtually all conditions, at least relatively well, please let me know. I am so disgusted that, after 24 years at this sport, I am ready to quit.
Post by: reppinNYC on July 02, 2006, 12:44:32 PM
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Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on July 02, 2006, 09:55:39 PM
I understand your frustrations. Everyone is still left with limited set of options. Read back through tenpinpro's last response and he said he had to stroke more v. lift. Not only was there a ball change involved but he also had to change release a bit.
If you are limited on equipment....try simple release changes or hand position changes.
Goodluck,
-Carl
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Post by: dw23 on July 03, 2006, 02:24:35 AM
I'm going to try my Arsenal Reactive with a little Magic Shine on it to see if it hits a little harder than the other equipment when I go to the weaker release.
Thanks,
DW
Post by: dizzyfugu on July 03, 2006, 03:26:53 AM
Breaking back the wrist upon release is helpful to tame it down, too, or you can try a suitcase grip (turning thumb inwards for maximun side rotation) - this will increase skid, but might become uncontrollable at the breakpoint. (More) Speed is helpful, too.
Unless you have no revs and high speed, I'd stay away from particle. Storm ball might work, since these use a soft particle that will only grab on dry ground, but nevertheless, you will need head oil to keep the ball "alive" and it might burn out prematurely. A pure reactive or a urethane coverstock are IMHO better bets.
--------------------
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Edited on 7/3/2006 4:26 AM
Post by: tenpinspro on July 04, 2006, 03:58:23 AM
We're about the same age and I know exactly what you mean when you say it was simpler then. I was 210+ back 20 years ago while the next guy was 195. Now I'm still 2 teens and even the 180 guys have past me up..
I looked at your arsenal, have you ever tried a pin over middle finger on a medium piece of equipment? In situations like these which create such drastic ball reactions, one way to attack the condition is with a layout just as drastic or at least out of the norm. Your layouts are pretty standard for control or nice blended shots from what I see.
My Delta 1 usually gives me quite a bit of length and lots of backend which I don't get to use too often due to my game being more rev dominant. On this condition however, it pushed past the midlane and ate thru whatever was on the backend.
Based on my reactions, if you can't change hand positions to create the necessary reaction, I like Dizzy's suggestion also of a higher rg ball that will help push downlane without having to "throw" it harder which I personally don't do well. That would be a whopping 15.5 mph for me....it takes about a 17+ on these drier conditions to clear properly. Let me know what you think and I'll try to help. Taking the Mean Machine to this house later today for a 5 game tourney to see how it does, I'll keep you posted.
--------------------
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Edited on 7/4/2006 3:55 AM
Post by: Re-Evolution on July 04, 2006, 04:54:14 AM
Curiosity is killing me by chance is the house you refer to a wood house that hasn't had an annual resurface yet. The reason I ask is cause what you are describing sounds very similar to one of my summer leagues. They are putting in Pro-Anvil and hopefully they have enough done next week for us to switch to the other end of the house.
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Post by: LuckyLefty on July 04, 2006, 08:33:46 AM
But our disaster is on a ProAnvil (older style)
A little oil goes a long way....AND super deep gutters!
Scoring in our house is quite high for anyone righty and on the left the bullet throwers and the guys with no revs or side roll.
Five to 10 feet of loft works nice too!
REgards,
LUkcylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: tenpinspro on July 05, 2006, 02:16:25 PM
quote:
Rick,
Curiosity is killing me by chance is the house you refer to a wood house that hasn't had an annual resurface yet.
No Sean, it's older synthetic. They've been in since I moved to Cali, that's been almost 20 years now. Not sure which type of synthetic though, bowl400 does (he bowls there more), maybe he can chime in.
--------------------
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Post by: bowl400 on July 05, 2006, 02:24:50 PM
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 06, 2006, 11:47:52 AM
Really reduced the entry angle!! Yet it covered boards smoothly in the carrydown!
I could see me skying on this shot!
Here is post under Flip Richard in drilling.
Took and applied the pin up version of Flip D I referenced above but made it a flip richard.
4 inch pin to pap. Pin near val and about 4 inches above grip midline.
Mass bias straight above thumb. On an X factor Deuce.
Did just what I wanted it to do. Waited waited waited and then created much less entry angle as I was able to play a shallower swing on this severe Wet dry or should I say bouncing bond dry midlanes with carrydown.
Lots of carry. Also with my usual drillings (nearer stacked) I never get brooklyns as the ball is crossing too sharp. Now on thsi shot I'm tetting brooklyns if I cross(not hard to do on thsi bounce!). In the past if I hit brookly the severe cut to the right left a five pin every time!
It almost looked like my axis rotation was dramatically reduced!
Yeah!!!
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS If I were to change anything I migh move pin down and ever so slightly weaker say 4 1/2 instead of 4!
PPS oh I took reaffirmed the idea here!!
from Dynothane...thanks..(but I wanted more backend movement than there 5 inch pin to pap drill.
http://www.dynothane.com/downloads/drillsheet_centrifugalmass.pdf
Note direct cap location...
(
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..