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Author Topic: Delta Pin-Cg-MB Questions/Drill suggestions  (Read 2551 times)

Ghost

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Delta Pin-Cg-MB Questions/Drill suggestions
« on: December 18, 2005, 11:58:59 PM »
Hi guys.

This past saturday I purchased a 15.2 lbs., Top 2.5, 4" Pin Rule Delta 1, and a friend of mine bought a Lane # 1 H2O Buzzaw, almost same specs.

I noticed the h2o has the pin, cg and offset nugget marks almost "in line" , maybe this pic explains this better:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/Alenquer/Bowling/H2O.jpg

In my Delta the pin,cg and mb forms a "triangle", being the cg mark on the left side here´s the pic :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/Alenquer/Bowling/RuleDelta1.jpg

My question is:

Is this correct, or the cg is mismarked ?

I read the famous "cgnomaddah" threads, but I really need your help on this ball, if it's not good, I will return the ball to the pro shop.

If there's no problem I will keep this baby, I like it a lot !!

By the way, I thought about drilling it pin below fingers, cg in palm, MB on position 2 of Track's sheet,no balance hole if possible,I'm right handed,track high, med. revs. and maybe like 18 of speed, I haven't measured my pap, what do you think about this layout ?

Thanks in advance


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Happy Bowling to all BR gang !
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Slopsurprise

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Re: Delta Pin-Cg-MB Questions/Drill suggestions
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2005, 08:07:24 AM »
There is nothing wrong with the layout but, it does limit your drilling options. If you want the pin under or over the bridge and the CG in the palm, it looks like the only place you will be able to put the MB is in position 3 (out twords or on the VAL)
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Jeffrevs

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Re: Delta Pin-Cg-MB Questions/Drill suggestions
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2005, 08:18:15 AM »
no it doesn't limit your drilling options......

in a strong mass bias ball like the Delta1 you ignore the CG when drilling....put the mass bias where you want it ....then afterwards figure out where you are for weights, then drill a hole if needed.
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JEFF
"A Mayhem and a couple of Hercs.......uhm.....Nice!.."
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Slopsurprise

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Re: Delta Pin-Cg-MB Questions/Drill suggestions
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2005, 08:32:14 AM »
quote:
no it doesn't limit your drilling options......

in a strong mass bias ball like the Delta1 you ignore the CG when drilling....put the mass bias where you want it ....then afterwards figure out where you are for weights, then drill a hole if needed.
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JEFF
"A Mayhem and a couple of Hercs.......uhm.....Nice!.."

hmmmm....interesting. Not to hijack this thread but, if you put the pin and MB where you want it and the CG is on the left side of your center line if you are a right hander, wouldnt that work against the rest of the ball? Or, is there a creative place to put a hole to combat that??
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Nothing hits like a Hammer!!

Yea.....nothing hits that bad!!!
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Jeffrevs

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Re: Delta Pin-Cg-MB Questions/Drill suggestions
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2005, 08:39:44 AM »
quote:
quote:
no it doesn't limit your drilling options......

in a strong mass bias ball like the Delta1 you ignore the CG when drilling....put the mass bias where you want it ....then afterwards figure out where you are for weights, then drill a hole if needed.
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JEFF
"A Mayhem and a couple of Hercs.......uhm.....Nice!.."

hmmmm....interesting. Not to hijack this thread but, if you put the pin and MB where you want it and the CG is on the left side of your center line if you are a right hander, wouldnt that work against the rest of the ball? Or, is there a creative place to put a hole to combat that??
--------------------
Nothing hits like a Hammer!!

Yea.....nothing hits that bad!!!


He wants MB position number two...sharp break point....that'll be to the right of his thumb...shouldn't be any issues.

Ignore the CG on strong mass bias balls
--------------------
JEFF
"A Mayhem and a couple of Hercs.......uhm.....Nice!.."
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clintdaley

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Re: Delta Pin-Cg-MB Questions/Drill suggestions
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2005, 08:50:04 AM »
Exactly....the cg on a high mass bias ball is there basically for static weight purposes only...and pretty much anyone will tell you while there are still limits on statics, they don't mean as much today.

Clint
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Ghost

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Re: Delta Pin-Cg-MB Questions/Drill suggestions
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2005, 09:06:48 AM »
Slopsurprise and Jeff, thanks for your comments, but I'm still in doubt if the CG is mismarked or it's that different manufacturers mark the balls different.

Thanks again

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Happy Bowling to all BR gang !
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Ghost

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Re: Delta Pin-Cg-MB Questions/Drill suggestions
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2005, 09:09:03 AM »
Thanks Clint, so in this case Can I drill the ball without concern of the CG ?

It does not matter ? LOL


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clintdaley

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Re: Delta Pin-Cg-MB Questions/Drill suggestions
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2005, 09:19:03 AM »
I have seen the CG in MANY places...just because they are not in line does not mean its mismarked. I had a Trauma Er back in the day that had the Pin and mass bias both 3 3/8 from my PAP, and the cg was dead in the palm of my grip! They can end up in weird places, but the pin and mass bias are always something like 6 3/4 of an inch from each other....if I remember right on Track's stuff.


Clint
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Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
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clintdaley

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Re: Delta Pin-Cg-MB Questions/Drill suggestions
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2005, 09:20:49 AM »
When I lay out a mass bias ball, especially high mass bias, pin and mass bias position are VERY important. The cg location comes into play with statics.....so, it does matter as you only can have 1 ounce of side, so the further away from the center of your grip you go, the better the chance you will need an extra hole to get the statics legal. Other than that, it has very little importance.

Clint
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Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
TRACK ADVISORY PRO SHOP STAFF

http://www.trackbowling.com/

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C-G ProShop-Carl

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Re: Delta Pin-Cg-MB Questions/Drill suggestions
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2005, 09:23:09 AM »
Ghost,

Everyone is correct in what they have said......cg does not matter on this ball.....HOWEVER----if you place it negative and you wish to alter reaction via a weighthole you will not have that option.

The CG is not mismarked....that is just how some of them end up being after production. The ball is not a blem.

Personally if I were having someone drill that ball for me I would have the pro shop operator play around with possible layouts that can keep the ball with some positive side weight. I feel this way because I love the option of placing a weighthole in a ball. In order to accomplish this you may need to have the MB slightly futher right than you were expecting----------this is not a bad thing for the Delta......because you can place the MB further right of your thumb and it will still backend very well (which sounds like what you are wanting the ball to do).

If you have any other questions, let me know. We did get that Rule working pretty well for ya

-Carl
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Youngstown Ohio

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Carl Hurd

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Ghost

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Re: Delta Pin-Cg-MB Questions/Drill suggestions
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2005, 09:37:26 AM »
Thanks for the great explanations on the specs Clint an Carl, and you time to answer

Hey Carl, the Rule works great ! But the Cg on the Rule is opposite to the Delta's, it's on the right of pin and MB, here's a pic :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/Alenquer/Bowling/NLRule5.jpg

And yes, I want kick in the backend
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Happy Bowling to all BR gang !
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tenpinspro

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Re: Delta Pin-Cg-MB Questions/Drill suggestions
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2005, 01:07:27 PM »
quote:
CG is mismarked or it's that different manufacturers mark the balls different.


Hey Ghost,

The guys are correct in their definitions.  But as Excaliber stated, it may limit your patterns some as you may not want to shift to the negative side of the ball when drilling.  

Track balls are pre-spun from the factory to find the true mass bias and that's why you may some of the balls with pin-cg-mb not in alignment.  Correct me if I'm wrong but I read somewhere here on BR that Brunswick (which produces Lane 1) attaches a riser pin directly from the center of their mass bias extending to the surface of a ball which shows the center of the mass but may or may not truly be the mass bias after the curing process.  Some weight blocks shift during the curing process of a ball causing the actual weights to shift as well.  Hope this helps explain some....
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Ghost

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Re: Delta Pin-Cg-MB Questions/Drill suggestions
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2005, 08:48:17 AM »
Hi Rick, thanks for the explanation, this way we can learn a lot about this wonderful sport, I'm very happy to find people like you, Carl, Anthony, Clint and all the helpful people who post here and share a lot of info.

Last night I drilled the ball, after a good talking with the driller, we made this layout :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/Alenquer/Bowling/RuleDeltaDrill.jpg

I suppose (I'm not expert LOL) that I will have good control, but a nice kick in the backend, opinions ?

I didn't have the chance to test the drill, but I will try to do it to tell you the results.

Thanks in advance.

P.D. Thanks Carl
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Happy Bowling to all BR gang !
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chitown

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Re: Delta Pin-Cg-MB Questions/Drill suggestions
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2005, 09:20:39 AM »
The only thing that I don't understand is how is the cg acurate when the MB is so far out of line with it?  The cg is the heaviest part of the ball?  So when these balls are way out alignment then does that effect the way it rolls compared to one that has the correct pin, cg and MB alignment?
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