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Author Topic: For C-G Carl need info please on The Rising  (Read 1253 times)

mrbowlingnut

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For C-G Carl need info please on The Rising
« on: September 04, 2007, 03:08:59 PM »
Carl please explain the drilling layout process for this ball, my driller says that Figs talked his ear off and still never explained why this ball is so easy to layout like track claims it is.

You might be more in tune with driller's than the drilling seminar was, i will have to special order this ball in because they choose not to stock it after the seminar. I would appreciate your help since you already know the layout process on this ball.
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charlest

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Re: For C-G Carl need info please on The Rising
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2007, 09:14:05 AM »
To say the drilling instructions on the website are incomplete is an  understatement. Or maybe you had to have gone to a Rising drilling seminar to get the full information lackage??

For instance, it implies that the pin and center of the grip are fixed positions, once determined by that procedure. Obviously they cannot be.

Also if the CG remains above the center of the grip, a weight hole will be above the PAP, which usually reduces the flare. WHat if you do not want to reduce the flare? or does that weight hole not affect the mysterious core?

Also, it says to rotate the ball in order to get the CG on the right side of the MB line, for righthanders. What if that puts the MB on the opposite side, that is, north/above the pin (like the old Ebonite Bombs Away cores)? That results in the MB being on the opposite side of the ball. Is that safe/good?
 
Inquiring minds want to know.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 9/5/2007 9:15 AM
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

scotts33

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Re: For C-G Carl need info please on The Rising
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2007, 10:20:28 AM »
Sounds like another NM fiasco.  I hope not.  
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Scott

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Scott

spinner031

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Re: For C-G Carl need info please on The Rising
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2007, 12:06:00 PM »
Maybe we should wait for the ball to actually come out first.  Then the core will be shown off.  I also think this topic should be on the Track web site.
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C-G ProShop-Carl

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Re: For C-G Carl need info please on The Rising
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2007, 10:59:52 PM »
quote:
To say the drilling instructions on the website are incomplete is an understatement. Or maybe you had to have gone to a Rising drilling seminar to get the full information lackage??

For instance, it implies that the pin and center of the grip are fixed positions, once determined by that procedure. Obviously they cannot be.

Also if the CG remains above the center of the grip, a weight hole will be above the PAP, which usually reduces the flare. WHat if you do not want to reduce the flare? or does that weight hole not affect the mysterious core?

Also, it says to rotate the ball in order to get the CG on the right side of the MB line, for righthanders. What if that puts the MB on the opposite side, that is, north/above the pin (like the old Ebonite Bombs Away cores)? That results in the MB being on the opposite side of the ball. Is that safe/good?

Inquiring minds want to know.



charlest,
The additional layouts for The Rising will be available on the pro shop side of our website. This is available to Fast Track Pro Shops.

As for CG placement and weighthole placement.....the low topweight (we are targeting 2 1/4 to be the very most) and the shorter pin distance to CG(we are targeting 2 inches or less) will help to keep the need for a weighthole down a bit. In the ones I have drilled the fingers only needed to be drilled slightly deeper.

Essentially the idea behind this layout system is similiar to the old Bombs Away system. The advantage that we have is that there has been much more time to study the technology and get it right. 360* Layout system enables you to put the MB on the opposite side of the ball. If you draw a line from the MB to the pin and continue that line straight and measure 6 3/4 inches from the pin there is another MB there that is equal in strength to the marked MB. The combination of the targeted pins and topweights, strong intermediate differential and heavy core make this ball very special.

As for the suggested layouts....they were put there for a reason. The reasoning behind that is this: There was alot of feedback over the last couple of years (data gathered throughout the industry) that showed that many pro shops did not understand the standard asymmetrical layouts. Most of the time they didn't measure a bowler's PAP or tilt etc. As we all know this is very important in drilling a ball with a strong intermediate differential. The 2 layouts will allow the ball to work and perform for a vast majority of bowlers. The idea behind it all was to keep the layouts simple. Offering the "trick" layouts via the website to Fast Track Pro Shops gives access to the layouts for the pro shop that looks into layouts a little more in depth. This is not to say that no one else will have that information....that is what Rick and I are for.

I hope this answers your questions. If I missed something, please feel free to PM me.

-Carl


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Carl Hurd
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Edited on 9/5/2007 11:04 PM
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Carl Hurd

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mrbowlingnut

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Re: For C-G Carl need info please on The Rising
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2007, 11:08:49 PM »
Thank you this has been very insightful on your answer, when the ball comes in i will pm you my stats and lane condition's that i am using it on.

So two mb's now that is a very different idea and low top's and short pins.
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laufaye

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Re: For C-G Carl need info please on The Rising
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2007, 10:29:02 AM »
quote:
I'm not Carl but I think I can shed some light on this subject.

All of the Risings are going to have VERY low top weight (1-1.5) because of this the CG is not going to be in the equation at all.  I have drilled 2 Risings and I have the same pin position on both balls but the MB are completely opposite.  One MB is in the strong position (45 degrees) and the other MB is 180 degrees in the opposite direction.  The Strong Rising has about 5in of track flare and the weak Rising had about 2in of track flare.  In both cases we did not worry about the CG.  All you need to do is place the pin above or below your fingers and rotate the MB to get the reaction you are looking for.  VERY VERY easy.

Hope this helps.
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Blaine Weninger
Track PBA Regional Staff


When you have the same pin position on both balls, and the MBs are 180 degree away on the other side, the reaction should be the same, both MB is on the same axis, true?, and the flare potential should be he same since pin position the same, No?
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Laufaye
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laufaye

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Re: For C-G Carl need info please on The Rising
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2007, 11:25:19 AM »
quote:
quote:
quote:
I'm not Carl but I think I can shed some light on this subject.

All of the Risings are going to have VERY low top weight (1-1.5) because of this the CG is not going to be in the equation at all.  I have drilled 2 Risings and I have the same pin position on both balls but the MB are completely opposite.  One MB is in the strong position (45 degrees) and the other MB is 180 degrees in the opposite direction.  The Strong Rising has about 5in of track flare and the weak Rising had about 2in of track flare.  In both cases we did not worry about the CG.  All you need to do is place the pin above or below your fingers and rotate the MB to get the reaction you are looking for.  VERY VERY easy.

Hope this helps.
--------------------
Blaine Weninger
Track PBA Regional Staff


When you have the same pin position on both balls, and the MBs are 180 degree away on the other side, the reaction should be the same, both MB is on the same axis, true?, and the flare potential should be he same since pin position the same, No?
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Laufaye


On the weak rising the MB is about 3-1/2 in above and to the right of my middle finger. The MB is in my track.  This ball flares about 1.5-2in where the strong Rising flares 5-5.5in.
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Blaine Weninger
Track PBA Regional Staff


Blaine,

One of the reason Track puting out the "trick" layout for the Rising is to utilize the MB on both poles of the ball, which is on the same axis, to do that they try to make balls with lower top weight and shorter pin, so driller can just flip the ball around easily without worrying about the static weight rule.

Now when you have 2 balls have same pin position and 1 MB is 13 1/2 inches away through the pin that is basically the same MB, just that Track didn't put another marking on the ball to show 2 MBs.

I am not saying what you see is not true, just want to find out why, same pin position should have same or very similar flare potential.  Maybe I am missing something here , do you have pics to show?  Just trying to learn more, understand more.  Have talked to Fig a couple times and recently have my staff on Track Advisory Staff, so just want to clarify.


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Laufaye
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