Author Topic: Help with a Machine question, and the entire Arsenal line... (Read 677 times)

JessN16 · « **on:** July 12, 2006, 06:21:29 PM »

Two questions, one space-saving post...

First of all, I have an Arsenal Angular right now and was considering adding an Arsenal Aggressive. I'm looking for a heavy-oil ball and was considering the Aggressive and the Mean Machine.

I have the original Machine and the Angular. I'm very pleased with my Machine (more on that in a minute), not so much with the Angular. I'm having a problem getting the Angular to face up and hit -- odd since it's got a fairly strong drilling on it already (CG low in the palm, pin to the right and below the ring about 4 o'clock). That's what concerns me about the Aggressive.

I'm actually leaning to the Aggressive because it's a symmetric ball, and I've got some other assym oiler stuff.

As for my Machine, it's drilled pin under bridge, CG 2" below that under the ring. Probably the strongest ball I've ever thrown. Violent move at the breakpoint, hits incredibly hard. It's a 14.5 pound ball and has the hitting power to rival any of my 16-lb stuff. I'm usually a Storm/Roto guy but if the Machine isn't ball of the year, someone's not paying attention.

I would assume the Mean Machine is stronger than the Aggressive, but if it's too strong I'll never be able to use it. I have plenty of revs and usually have to worry about stuff hooking too much for my game and not enough. In fact, I'm struggling to find ways to use the Machine as it is.

I'm a little unclear on how the Arsenal line is set up, so I was hoping someone could explain it further. And if anyone can figure out why I'm having problems out of the Angular, I'm all ears (my driller reports other bowlers with similar issues). And I'd like to get opinions on the Mean Machine vs. the Aggressive.

Thanks,
Jess

SteveAustin2808 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 13, 2006, 02:31:16 AM »

Jess,

The only comparison I can provide you with buddy having NOT thrown the Mean Machine yet is that the MM is reactive asymmetrical and the Aggressive is a particle symmetrical. The Aggressive can cover some boards on the slick stuff; however, overall I see the MM being stronger to a certain extent. Hopefully, mine will be in within a few weeks and I can post something clearer for you dude!

As for the deal with your Machine, you and I are in the same boat in some ways. I'm having the same ordeal getting the Machine to even finish decent. Check my other thread out and you'll understand further the story behind my Machine. As for the Angular and your worries about getting an Aggressive. Just a quick note that the Aggressive is by far alot more ball than one would think. The Aggressive I had was Pin Above while the Angular was Pin Below. I originally thought the Angular would pop alot quicker on the backend. This wasn't the case, the Aggressive outhooked the Angular with these layouts in comparison by about 5-6 boards and you could actually see the differences when playing different lines. A suggestion on the Angular would be to alter the coverstock, just remember to have it done or do it the right way. I serious believe this is what has killed my Machine as I've done coverstock alterations alot to it and I've had this experience before altering particle coverstocks in the past, simply put, once it was altered, it was dead from the start! I hope this helps you some buddy! God Bless You and have a great week!

--Michael--
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JessN16 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 13, 2006, 02:46:54 AM »

Thanks for the response. I'm continuing to lean towards the Aggressive -- I love particle stuff.

I just read your Machine thread. I've got a friend that is having the same issue you are with the Machine and its surface, and he's got his drilled similar to yours. I wonder if that ball simply works better for most people pin-down. It wouldn't be the first ball I've seen that had a vastly different (more so than usual) reaction pin up to pin down. What makes my Machine so strong is the midlane read; I'm not used to have a ball that strong in the midlane.

Jess

clintdaley · « **Reply #3 on:** July 13, 2006, 05:51:34 AM »

Although I no longer have any Aggressives, I compared my Robo and Mean that are drilled identical to each other, and the Mean was longer and snappier for sure. If I remember right, the Aggressive and Robo were similar for me, but the Robo moved more on the back..the Aggressive was smoother for me with about the same amount of lope through the heads. The Mean gets down the lane very well then moves pretty hard on the back. As I said before, If my speed was not there, it was through the nose....

Clint
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460

Track Pro Shop staff
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chitown · « **Reply #4 on:** July 13, 2006, 09:00:12 AM »

The Arsenal Agressive is a great ball for heavy oil. It can handle a lot of oil.

Your Angualr sounds like it's burning up. I'm surprised your having problems with it because it's a fantastic ball that hit very hard.

I suggest the Arsenal Reactive instead of the aggressive for the spot your looking for. The AR is a versatile ball and hits great. The AR is one of my favorite Track balls.

Edited on 7/13/2006 8:55 AM

JessN16 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 13, 2006, 11:06:21 AM »

quote:
The Arsenal Agressive is a great ball for heavy oil. It can handle a lot of oil.

Your Angualr sounds like it's burning up. I'm surprised your having problems with it because it's a fantastic ball that hit very hard.

I suggest the Arsenal Reactive instead of the aggressive for the spot your looking for. The AR is a versatile ball and hits great. The AR is one of my favorite Track balls.

Edited on 7/13/2006 8:55 AM

I've had a couple of people tell me it was burning up, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case in my situation at least, from paying attention to the ball motion/axis as it goes down the lane. The only way I can get it to move, in fact, is to slow it down and really tilt my axis; then, it will hook. But it doesn't seem to have much hit.

Going the other way, I can really turn up the speed (20 mph+) if I have to, and the ball just laughs at me at that speed.

To be honest, this is similar to what I remember about the last Track ball I had (Triton Heat) and it's possible my game just doesn't match up to these core/cover combos. The Machine was kind of my last-ditch effort with Track, but it's very much a winner. The only problem with the Machine is it may be too strong for me. That's why I like the idea of an Aggressive better than a MM, but since the core in the Aggressive is virtually the same as the Angular, I'm worried I might have problems with it.

Jess

clintdaley · « **Reply #6 on:** July 13, 2006, 11:23:14 AM »

The cores are very close to similar, but not identical. However, you sound like me. With my release, etc, asymmetricals used to be too sharp on the backend while symmetricals would not turn over enough....I either had to back the asymmetricals off or juice up the symmetricals...not what I wanted. Something that may get your attention is the Inertia. Don't have any specs yet, BUT, I have heard it is Peak PowerPack particle...combining the Peak particle (Aggressive and Angular) with the resin base from the Arsenal Reactive and the core that was going to be the Delta core before the one that did go into it last year....( I think it was the Delta)....

This ball has me DROOLING already!!!!!

Clint
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460

Track Pro Shop staff
www.trackbowling.com
www.letsgobowlingdaley.com

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2006, 08:29:39 PM »

Jess,

First....The layout that you have on the Angular is pretty contradictive to what it is supposed to be. That layout will take alot of the backend reaction out of the ball. Have you tried a surface adjustment?

You mention your Machine's layout...pin and CG...but you failed to mention the MB....which is just about as imporant as the pin when it comes to laying out an asymmetrical.

Comparing the Mean Machine and Arsenal Aggressive....the Mean Machine is much stronger.....particularly in the backend of the lane. The Aggressive was a strong ball...it rolled fairly early and had very good backend...but not compared to the Mean Machine. The Mean Machine will handle much more oil than the Aggressive.

The Arsenal line is as such:
Angular- A length and strong backend ball.
Aggressive- early rolling, med/heavy ball.
Reactive- This ball was a perfect mix of the Angular and the Aggressive.
Artillery- This was my favorite ball out of the Arsenal Series.....good length(yet "rolly" in the midlane) and fantastic backend movement.

I hope this info helps,
-Carl

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Youngstown Ohio

Track Intl.-Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
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Tag Team Member #1

JessN16 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2006, 09:49:20 PM »

Thanks for the information, Carl. My Machine's MB is about 4 o'clock down from the thumb. I've had several Storm assyms with that placement and love it there. Love it on the Machine, too.

The Angular is in box finish right now.

The drilling on the Angular was someone else's. We're getting ready to plug at least part of that ball; should I take the pin up over the bridge?

Jess

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #9 on:** July 13, 2006, 09:54:54 PM »

Jess, I would just place the pin above the ring finger......it will allow for more finish or "kick" on the backend,

Carl
--------------------
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio

Track Intl.-Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
www.trackbowling.com
www.startabowlingrevolution.com

Tag Team Member #1

Author Topic: Help with a Machine question, and the entire Arsenal line... (Read 677 times)

JessN16

Help with a Machine question, and the entire Arsenal line...

SteveAustin2808

Re: Help with a Machine question, and the entire Arsenal line...

JessN16

Re: Help with a Machine question, and the entire Arsenal line...

clintdaley

Re: Help with a Machine question, and the entire Arsenal line...

chitown

Re: Help with a Machine question, and the entire Arsenal line...

JessN16

Re: Help with a Machine question, and the entire Arsenal line...

clintdaley

Re: Help with a Machine question, and the entire Arsenal line...

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: Help with a Machine question, and the entire Arsenal line...

JessN16

Re: Help with a Machine question, and the entire Arsenal line...

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: Help with a Machine question, and the entire Arsenal line...