Author Topic: How should I drill these?? (Read 1927 times)

Rock77 · « **on:** May 04, 2005, 01:39:48 AM »

Just recently picked up a couple of barely used balls. A Slash and an Arsenal Angular. Both balls have great specs: 15 lbs, 3 0z, 3.5 tw & 3" pins on both balls. Now I dont really know how to drill them or what I want them to do. The Slash, I guess more of a control drill for med to med/hvy conditions and then Arsenal Angular, well I wanna use that one to its max potential. Unsure about the Slash, but on the Angular I was gonna go pin below bridge, cg kicked out about 1" or just leave it in the palm. What do you guys think? I am not really trying to fill any voids in my arsenal as I think I have mostly everything covered. If I am missing something please suggest. Thanks in advance.

On edit, I think my PAP may have changed. I dont know the measurements for sure but the oil rings on my ball usually come back about 1/2" away from the ring finger and 3/4" away from the thumb. Hope that helps some.
--------------------
I just close my eyes and throw the ball

Edited on 5/4/2005 9:35 AM

clintdaley · « **Reply #1 on:** May 04, 2005, 11:33:04 AM »

I have a Slash and Angular drilled pin under ring, cg in the palm. The Slash is perfect on mediums and even the lighter side of heavy. The Slash is enough of a control ball for me that I can square up on heavy stuff and still get it there. The Angular is a medium ball for me. The pearl skates too far on the heavy stuff/no backends. The ball does shine for me when there are backends available. Sounds like you want some length and turn with the pin under the bridge, cg in palm. By kicking the cg out, you will make the ball try to roll a bit earlier and have a little less backend from it trying to roll sooner. I don't think that the drill you suggested will be bad, especially when you are trying something.

Clint
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Salem, Ohio 44460
TRACK ADVISORY PRO SHOP STAFF

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #2 on:** May 04, 2005, 11:36:59 AM »

Rock,

I actually like the drilling you mention for the Angular. <<<<<may drill one like that myself.

For the Slash, smooth drill is better in my opinion. You seem to like layouts with the pin under the ring finger...that usually tends to offer a smoother type reaction for most bowlers. Go with that type of placement for the pin, but kick it out 1/2 inch so it is slightly closer to your PAP.

I just want to add.....the Slash is one of those balls that you can slap your favorite layout(whatever it is) onto and you will be happy.

Goodluck,
-EX-
--------------------
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio

Track Intl.-Amateur/Pro Shop Staff

tenpinspro · « **Reply #3 on:** May 04, 2005, 11:45:15 AM »

Hey Rock,

quote:
The Slash, I guess more of a control drill

Your thoughts of pin on centerline and cg in palm is fine for this reaction.

quote:
Arsenal Angular, well I wanna use that one to its max potential.

If you want to see what this ball can do, then I'd move the pin and cg over to the positive side of the ball. Dependent upon you pap (your old pap was 6 something and down right?), something like a 5x4.5 would be fine. Your description of your track still shows you're slightly inverted which helps a ball get into a roll sooner than most.

Keep the pin up or next to ring and have cg just slightly right of that below it. This should give you good length and a strong backend reaction. Hope this helps some bud...
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl. - Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
Vise Inserts Staff
Trackbowling.com

Rock77 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 04, 2005, 12:16:45 PM »

quote:
I just want to add.....the Slash is one of those balls that you can slap your favorite layout(whatever it is) onto and you will be happy.

Thats good to know!!

See, right now I am going through some drill experimentation and seeing what different drill patterns do for me. Thats why I wanted the pin below bridge, cg in palm for the AA. Then Rick said to do a pin under ring and kick the cg out a half inch past that (5x4.5). So, now I am unsure what drill to put on the ball(s).

I was going to do a pin under ring, cg in palm on the Slash, but Rick said to use the pin below bridge, cg in palm for this one.

Geesh, cant you guys agree on something?!? LOL.

Now I dont know which pattern(s) to use on either ball!!
--------------------
I just close my eyes and throw the ball

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #5 on:** May 04, 2005, 01:06:49 PM »

Rock,

You know Rick and I usually agree on things. This time we are throwing you a curve ball.

The Angular can be a strong ball bud. it will certianly be stronger than your Freakazoid-----a bit later down the lane, but with much more backend and a tad more oil handling ability. Another ball to compare it to is the Xception--given identical layouts...the Angular is going to roll up about 2 ft sooner with very similiar backend reaction. Try pin above your ring finger and slightly right (keeping it positive as Rick stated), stack the CG below. Watch this thing come roaring back.

The Slash reminds me alot of my Havoc. I think the Havoc was strong, but the overall motion and predictability of the ball is the same. I did not leave mine with the OOB finish, I put a coat of Clean n Sheen on it. The Slash is the perfect ball to control over/under reactions with. I think Rick may be on to something......pin under bridge (with your pap it should end up about 5.5 from PAP, kick the CG right though....5.5 x 3.5 layout. That should be really nice, but will require a weighthole...put it on your PAP.

--------------------
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio

Track Intl.-Amateur/Pro Shop Staff

Rock77 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 04, 2005, 01:18:32 PM »

quote:
The Angular can be a strong ball bud. it will certianly be stronger than your Freakazoid-----a bit later down the lane, but with much more backend and a tad more oil handling ability. Another ball to compare it to is the Xception--given identical layouts...the Angular is going to roll up about 2 ft sooner with very similiar backend reaction. Try pin above your ring finger and slightly right (keeping it positive as Rick stated), stack the CG below. Watch this thing come roaring back.

Well, I am not trying to be difficult, but pin up drills dont usually work for me. I dont know why but I never get a consistent reaction with pin up drills. I had a Rule drilled pin over ring mb right of thumb and never got consistency out of it. I try to stay away from pin up drills if I can. The highest pin I have on any ball right now is on my Xception. That ball is drilled pin over bridge and miraculously, I love it. Good length with pop.

Maybe I can actually fill some gaps in my arsenal. I mean stepping down from a Mutant Mania to a FAZ is quite a jump so the AA could fit here and then the Slash could be just under the FAZ unless it was designed to be stronger, then I can play around with that ball a bit. HMmmmmmm, decisions, decisions..
--------------------
I just close my eyes and throw the ball

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #7 on:** May 04, 2005, 01:22:52 PM »

Rock,

Instead of above you can always move the pin down to along side of your ring finger....(should put it at about 4- 4 1/4 from your PAP?).

I have not thrown a Mutant Mania bud, but I think that the Angular should fit nicely between it and your Freakazoid.
-EX-
--------------------
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio

Track Intl.-Amateur/Pro Shop Staff

tenpinspro · « **Reply #8 on:** May 04, 2005, 01:38:18 PM »

Ex and I gotta keep you guys on your toes....

Based on what you wanted Rock, I suggested what I did. Anytime we center a controlling weight, it helps control the ball's reaction. Even the rico drill places the pin in palm for more "control" and stability. You said you wanted to see the Angular at it's max so placing the pin under bridge (on centerline) is not allowing the weight block to be imbalanced for more or a stronger reaction.

I definitely agree with Ex on the Slash reaction now that he mentions it. It did roll up and is smooth like the Havoc but couldn't handle the heavier puddles in the middle on some of the THS.

The Angular is also a strong ball to me, when it sniffs some dry, it easily lives up to its name. To give you an example, at the Track seminar, we had 6 lanes with a different shot on each. I was on the longest one (heavy 42ft) flat pattern with clean backs. GP2 barely rolled up, Aggressive gave me a little more room but I took my Angular (4x3.5) and opened up the backend. I was actually getting a better reaction on the back because it stored so much energy till the end and then cut loose. Sorry if we confused you in any way but I just responded with what I'd feel would work and why.
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl. - Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
Vise Inserts Staff
Trackbowling.com

Rock77 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 04, 2005, 02:18:35 PM »

Rick, no need for apologies bud. This kind of confusion is good!!

It helps me learn more about the technical stuff!!

I see where you are going with the pin placements and whatnot.

Truthfully, if I wanted to, I could use the Rico drill on the Slash and it would work fine because the pin is in my palm and thus controlled at the time of release, correct?

So with the pin off center, the weight is off center and needs to stabilize, so pin off centerline drills produce more dramatic reactions on the lane and obviously fine tune with how far or near the pin is to the centerline and how far or near the cg is to centerline. Does that sound right??

The thing that confuses me is that I thought drill patterns were relative to your PAP and not the center line of your grip??

The closer the pin to the PAP, the less distance it has to stabilize so it rolls up sooner, opposite for pin further from PAP.

Could you touch on this a bit more and clarify?? I want to learn!!
--------------------
I just close my eyes and throw the ball

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #10 on:** May 04, 2005, 02:24:40 PM »

Rock,

Since you track so high the "rico" drill may cause you to flare over your middle finger hole. Being 1/2 inch from your middle finger you are safe going with the below the finger drillings, but in the center of your grip you may thumb the hole. Try it on an old unused ball first.

As for the stable core placement you may need to think of it like this:

Leverage 3 3/8 pin from PAP is the most unstable you will get, thus creating the most flare.

As you work the pin towards your PAP it reduces flare thus stabilizes the core. As you work further from 3 3/8 it also reduces flare, thus stabilizing the core.

This is the easiest way to explain it.

-EX-
--------------------
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio

Track Intl.-Amateur/Pro Shop Staff

Rock77 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 04, 2005, 02:34:57 PM »

Ok, starting to understand, BUT how does pin placement affect how much length a ball gets, or does it??
--------------------
I just close my eyes and throw the ball

tenpinspro · « **Reply #12 on:** May 04, 2005, 02:54:44 PM »

Hey Rock,

You are correct, pin to pap is the important thing but when we start to push our pap limits or cross over centerline, it helps control or delay reactions.

I'll try to explain it like this, leverage is at 3 3/8, it is the strongest position to place a weight block to an individual's pap so the further we extend it (4-5 pin), the longer it will take the weight block to reach it's psa (preferred spin axis). If we placed the pin under 3 3/8 (1-2 pin), that block would fall very quickly and the ball motion is very early to possibly roll-out.

Once we cross the centerline (true numbers are 6 3/4), we used to call it cheating the pin (different drillers may refer to it differently), it now places the controlling weight on the other side of the ball as it's rolling down the lane. Ever drill a pin in track? At about 10:00 from cg (left of mid finger), this causes the ball to go extremely long and pretty straight because the controlling weight is now on the other side of the ball as it's rolling down the lane. Another way to look at it is because it is so far from pap, it takes forever to reach its psa. In all honesty, I don't know if it ever does, I guess it can if it were given enough time.

Example: Brian gave a me a full roller layout for one of my spinner customers. By placing the pin at 7:30, it actually pulled his track back up towards his grip because the weight block is sitting in the thumb negative quadrant which is how we drill statics to help a bowler roll early. With the weight block there, it wants to pull the ball left to right vs right to left which is the reaction or look we normally get when the weights are centered or on the positive side of the ball. Pm me bud if you want more details or I'll write forever...

--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl. - Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
Vise Inserts Staff
Trackbowling.com

Author Topic: How should I drill these?? (Read 1927 times)

Rock77

How should I drill these??

clintdaley

Re: How should I drill these??

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: How should I drill these??

tenpinspro

Re: How should I drill these??

Rock77

Re: How should I drill these??

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: How should I drill these??

Rock77

Re: How should I drill these??

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: How should I drill these??

tenpinspro

Re: How should I drill these??

Rock77

Re: How should I drill these??

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: How should I drill these??

Rock77

Re: How should I drill these??

tenpinspro

Re: How should I drill these??