BallReviews

Equipment Boards => Track => Topic started by: Grayson on August 04, 2008, 07:15:25 AM

Title: Is this the answer?
Post by: Grayson on August 04, 2008, 07:15:25 AM
Hi!

I am looking for a ball .... looking for a ball to compliment my Machine towards oilier patterns.

Now you must know that for me my Machine is the ideal ball for anything... but works best on meds. When it gets oily it skids... when it gets dry it burns up. Makes sense.

Now I am searching for a ball with the same potential reaction shape as the Machine but with a stronger overall hook.

Now my search has come to this results:
Mean Machine? Not really sure about this
Robo Rule - This seems to be THE answer ... same core stronger coverstock
Rising... mhhh... no clue about the ball... completely new concept
Uprising... well the same as the Rising

I am asking this question here as I am eager to stick with Track.... the Machine has been such a good ball for me .

the C+ from LAne#1 is working as it seems ... still am searching.

My other "options" or choices from other companies are
Terminator
Ogre particle


I am not really sure... Tell me what ball from Track has more bite overall with the same reaction shape as the Machine?
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won''t fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c('')('')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Billy Ray on August 04, 2008, 04:30:31 PM
What is the infatuation with buying old equipment to fill a hole in an aresenal. Have you tried the new balls? They are quite impressive and I bet can fit what you are looking for!
For heavier volumes of oil with a strong backend I would probably go with either the Rising or Uprising with a touch of the shine knocked off it.
Both are excellent choices. The Rising is a little earlier and a little smoother than the Uprising.
--------------------
Billy Ray
Track Pro Staff
www.raysproshop.com
"Let Us Help You Become More Competitive"
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Grayson on August 04, 2008, 04:35:26 PM
well.. you know people... they tend to stick with what they know... and I am not different.

And the Risings offer a complete new concept of core tech... etc.

and from BTM the Rising is not much stronger than the Machine OOB... so I am asking for oppinions.

On the other hand with the Mean MAchien and the Robo Rule get a core I know... with coverstocks that are stronger as asked...

Just asking for oppinions .
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: freak761 on August 04, 2008, 04:56:18 PM
I had two Robos and and it was an awesome ball, very strong for the heavier stuff. If you like the Machine, you'll like the Robo. I had a lot of success with the Mean Machine but it was more of a medium type ball for me. I cannot speak for the newer stuff, but since the Robo was a light load particle, I would think it would handle a little more oil. I have seen one Rising and one UpRising thrown, wasn't impressed with the Rising but the UpRising is very impressive and looks like a helluva ball. I haven't seen it thrown dull, just OOB. Just my 2 cents...
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: ccrider on August 04, 2008, 05:02:03 PM
I have the machine, mean machine,power machine, and strike machine. I also have the kinetic, temper and rising.

For medium heavy to heavy oil, I would go with the mean machine. It is underrated and takes well to cover adjustments. We have a pretty much flat USBC no tap shot, out of bounds outside of 7, but playable just barely playing down and in at 15. I played both the rising and mean machine yesterday on the shot. I took the mean machine down to 500 abralon and then hit it with bean's sauce. I tried something different with the rising, took it to 220 and then hit it with rough buff, by my guess, bringing it to about 1500.

I was pleased with both balls, but as usual, the mean machine is so much more predictable. Hits hard, carries well, even when you slow the shot down to 12-13 mph quibica. With the Rising, I had to stay firm but not too fast and did not have any room to miss.

You can take the mean machine up to 1000 or 2000 abralon and use track cleen and sheen or 3m finesse, both non abrasives, and get different looks to the pocket. Just my two cents worth, based on actual experience.
--------------------
Those that can do. Those that can't complain.

My saying for the day: "You can take the ho out of the hood, but you can't take the ho out of the ho."
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: c_new on August 04, 2008, 05:13:04 PM
The Up-Rising is an Excellent choice.  I would definatly use abralon and knowck of the Factory finish polish.  I understand the want to sick with what you know, however, changing the core may give you the angle you need to carry.  Having alot of hook is always nice but not always needed.  You may want more hook but actually need just a slightly different roll.

I hope this helps you out! Good Luck!
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: LaneHammer20 on August 04, 2008, 05:30:19 PM
I had a Robo Rule, and being that you are wanting a ball that somewhat reacts similar yet is stronger overall, i don't think you could beat getting the Robo.

I had a weak drill on mine which was pin above ring, which puts it right around 5.5 p2p and MB like right below thumb, and that ball was still really strong. it hooked as much as my big bang which is drilled quite abit stronger, the carry was also really impressive.

Being that you will be able to get one of these for a really good price, I think you would be making a mistake atleast not trying it.
--------------------

Arsenal:
-Big Bang
-Buzz
-Hawgzilla
-Spare Tire

FOR SALE:
Faball Black Hammer 16lb
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Grayson on August 05, 2008, 01:13:17 AM
Thanks folks!

and btw - I have found that the rating the producer and even "independend" users give are not always "reliable"... ok wrong term... not always "transferable".

The MAchine is rated as medium-oily ball and truly is a med ball. When I dulled it it was a nice smooth arcing oiler. Now with a more shiny coverstock it is a monster on meds. OOB it was a jerk

Style also plays a big role. That's why I want to have YOUR oppinions.
Why am I rather going with the older stuff?

A: you played it - you know it - you can tell me what you found and how you rate it
B: Don't like Ebonite much.. I have a big problem with that though the new Track stuff seems nice and working. I know that my Machine does - I know the core - I just need more bite on oil without sacrificing that reliable reaction and without taking much risk. And that risk is there for me with the new balls.

A member of my old club plays a Kinetic with tremendous success. Yet I want to have a ball as close to the Machine as the Robo Rule or MM.

C: I always need to save up money first. I have already bought one new ball that year so my budged is already "empty" but I will have a new job in Oktober and so I am planning already

My possibilities so far are

Uprising - dropped that one. Too close to my MAchine I guess though very promising ball

Rising - not sure - truly an option but really not conviced (hit me: don't like the color )

Mean Machine - maybe... maybe not.
I found that when I took the shine off my Machine it worked nice on the more oily... so with the additional hooking power of the Meany it might work out. But why get a balöl and adjust it when another ball will do tha work right away?

Robo Rule - #1 atm

Another Machine with stronbger layout and coverstock adjustment: There is one at a reasonable sale price here at an online shop - yet I want rather a real oiler like the ROBO or MM

Again Thanks for your advices. Will see how much BowlersDream charges for shipping and consider a ROBO cause the price is really good! But shipping is a pain for me... so the really nice price is ruined by the shipping...

--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")




Edited on 8/5/2008 2:19 AM
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: hjk246 on August 05, 2008, 03:52:55 AM
i had a mean machine and that ball was a beast.the only thing i did not like about it was that it died quick.I take very good care of my equipment and within 30-40 games she was put to sleep.i currently have a kinetic energy and that ball is fantastic.It goes a bit longer than the mean machine but has a beautiful hook to it that is controlled and smooth.best of luck to whatever you purchase.
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Mark T. Trgovac on August 05, 2008, 04:35:40 AM
quote:
I have the machine, mean machine,power machine, and strike machine. I also have the kinetic, temper and rising.

For medium heavy to heavy oil, I would go with the mean machine. It is underrated and takes well to cover adjustments. We have a pretty much flat USBC no tap shot, out of bounds outside of 7, but playable just barely playing down and in at 15. I played both the rising and mean machine yesterday on the shot. I took the mean machine down to 500 abralon and then hit it with bean's sauce. I tried something different with the rising, took it to 220 and then hit it with rough buff, by my guess, bringing it to about 1500.

I was pleased with both balls, but as usual, the mean machine is so much more predictable. Hits hard, carries well, even when you slow the shot down to 12-13 mph quibica. With the Rising, I had to stay firm but not too fast and did not have any room to miss.

You can take the mean machine up to 1000 or 2000 abralon and use track cleen and sheen or 3m finesse, both non abrasives, and get different looks to the pocket. Just my two cents worth, based on actual experience.
--------------------
Those that can do. Those that can't complain.

My saying for the day: "You can take the ho out of the hood, but you can't take the ho out of the ho."


First I just want to say that Clean n Sheen is abrasive and 3M Finess it is on the USBC list of having an abrasive. Clean N Sheen has a grit to it, that will change the cover.

Now when it comes to the equipment you are talking about. I have had all the them and the Rising out hooks them all. The Rising out of box is 4000, the Machine is 1000 compound and that means it comes OOB sanded to 320 and then hit with Clean N Sheen. This is gives you a polished 1000 grit surface and reaction out of box. The Rising when sanded will grab harder then a Robo Rule. I loved the robo rule but the Rising out hooks it by at least 4 boards in every part of the lane.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Official "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio
Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

Happily distributing the red pills of CGNOMADDA. "if you take this pill, YOUR MIND WILL BE OPEN TO A WORLD NEW IDEAS."
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: iamone78 on August 05, 2008, 05:37:38 AM
For my oiler I went with a GP2 and honestly it doesn't get very much use. In the last year the only shot I have found that I was able to play with it was a 45ft flat pattern. That was only for 12 games. Other than that, it sits ready to go. I don't see enough oil out there to have to use it. This ball is silly strong. The same goes for my meany less than 12 games on it in the past year.

there is a 15lb GP2 for trade in the Track Forsale forum:
http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp
TopicID=201055&ForumID=108&CategoryID=12

This is my pick for a heavy oil ball. I think you could also dull up a meany and use it on a heavier pattern as well. It wouldn't take long to open up your line a bit and then drop down to your machine or a pearl.

Definitely some versatile equipment to choose from out there. I am sure you won't be disappointed with what you decide to go with.
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: six pack on August 05, 2008, 05:50:41 AM
for me the robo was stronger and smoother then the rising or mean machine.the mean was stronger then the machine but had more length and backend then the robo.if I had to compare the mean it would be close to the riseing but the riseing was more dynamic and the cover was easier to change with results.if you want a heavy oil ball with the robo core then my pick would be the robo.now another ball I liked even more for heavier oil out of all of them is the phenom.if you can find one it's worth the hunt.
--------------------
The harder I try the harder they fall
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: On Fire on August 05, 2008, 06:15:56 AM
The Mean Machine is a great ball to have on the medium to med/heavy conditions and that ball will move! It was probably one of my strongest hooking balls the past year, actually liked it better than the Resurgence. It take coverstock changes very well and even with 800-1000 grit dull you can use it on the heavy oil with a firm speed. The only reason I'm selling mine is because the drilling I have on the second one I got is abit too strong for me.

I've also thrown the Robo Rule a few times and it's a smooth ball that's not too aggressive off the dry (probably because the MB was placed near the track area).

If all else fails, look into the Kinetic Energy since I might get that to replace my MM. There's alot of good reviews about that ball.

So, if you decide to go with a Mean Machine I do have a used one for sale if you're interested.
http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=204102&ForumID=26&CategoryID=12

--------------------


Edited on 8/5/2008 6:24 AM
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Grayson on August 05, 2008, 09:57:03 AM
hard decisions...

I took a look at that offer already but the pin position is too far away from that of my Machine and I'd like to have the same layout on both balls.

Combine the longer layout and smoother transision with a stronger coverstock and I bet I might end up with what my C+ is already giving me.

Now I am completely off... I mean the Mean is getting interesting again.

On the other hand my C+ is smooth and working.

Need to figure that out... maybe its the hot weather with the high amount of humidity making the oil slick and in winter it will work out again... dunno... that's the problem...

---
I dulled the C+ (which is just a tad stronger as the MAchine with the OOB surface) and the C+ is working but smooth to the max (with a label like drill!). I am looking for a stronger ball with the (almost) same rolling characterisitcs as the Machine.
---

It is hard to decide... the Robo could be too much... the Mean not enough. But with the same coverstock the Mean is getting more interesting... hard to decide... really hard.

Well the Robo is a soaker, too I bet... but I give my stuff the hot water bath procedure regularly to avoid the oil death. Works out.

Let's see what winter brings and then I can decide.

I found a Robo on the German market... if it is a 15 I need to find out.
and there is a Machine also considerable. No more Mean Machines. They were sold very fast here.

So far I am still more likely sticking with the Robo Core. Works with my Machine so why change and take a risk.

Again.. thanks for your oppinions.

And you are right... the Uprising will get more aggressive when changed... it is an option. But as I wrote... Robo Core  vs Megatron + new coverstock ? ? ? not really a question
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Grayson on August 07, 2008, 12:49:35 AM
ok. I made it halfway down the road..

its either the Robo or the Meany... but I am not sure.

Ratings are very close just that the Robo seems a tad stronger and the meany a tad longer

so the question is. Will there be a real difference between a Mean Machine and a Robo Rule?

I know nothing about them... I only go by the numbers BTM gives me... how trustworthy is that?

So what ball is better for med-oil? what for real oil
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Mark T. Trgovac on August 07, 2008, 01:38:32 AM
quote:
ok. I made it halfway down the road..

its either the Robo or the Meany... but I am not sure.

Ratings are very close just that the Robo seems a tad stronger and the meany a tad longer

so the question is. Will there be a real difference between a Mean Machine and a Robo Rule?

I know nothing about them... I only go by the numbers BTM gives me... how trustworthy is that?

So what ball is better for med-oil? what for real oil
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")




If you are looking at these to. The Robo is alot stronger then it says. The ball is a light load particle and grabs real early. However it still turns over well on the back for a particle ball.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Official "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio
Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

Happily distributing the red pills of CGNOMADDA. "if you take this pill, YOUR MIND WILL BE OPEN TO A WORLD NEW IDEAS."
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: six pack on August 07, 2008, 05:48:32 AM
quote:
quote:
ok. I made it halfway down the road..

its either the Robo or the Meany... but I am not sure.

Ratings are very close just that the Robo seems a tad stronger and the meany a tad longer

so the question is. Will there be a real difference between a Mean Machine and a Robo Rule?

I know nothing about them... I only go by the numbers BTM gives me... how trustworthy is that?

So what ball is better for med-oil? what for real oil
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")




If you are looking at these to. The Robo is alot stronger then it says. The ball is a light load particle and grabs real early. However it still turns over well on the back for a particle ball.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Official "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio
Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

Happily distributing the red pills of CGNOMADDA. "if you take this pill, YOUR MIND WILL BE OPEN TO A WORLD NEW IDEAS."


Agreed! the Robo was smoother then the Meanie and the Meanie could be jumpy on a fresh med-heavy wet/dry.I would go with the Robo for heavy oil.
--------------------
The harder I try the harder they fall
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Grayson on August 08, 2008, 12:35:25 AM
so for a two ball arsenal with optional coverstock preparations what of the two you would say would go better with a Machine?
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: six pack on August 08, 2008, 06:15:19 AM
I would pick the ROBO for oil.
--------------------
The harder I try the harder they fall
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: NJStroker on August 08, 2008, 12:16:19 PM
definetly the robo
--------------------
Im so glad people are brainwashed to think that TRACK sucks. And its even funnier when im carrying with my TRACK ball and they're going flat ten with their BRUNSWICK ball.
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Grayson on August 08, 2008, 02:48:10 PM
k.. the robo
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: LaneHammer20 on August 08, 2008, 03:03:49 PM
give us some feedback once you punch it up, and get to roll it some. I certainly think you won't be disappointed
--------------------

Arsenal:
-Big Bang
-Buzz
-Hawgzilla
-Spare Tire

FOR SALE:
Faball Black Hammer 16lb
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Grayson on August 14, 2008, 03:25:19 PM
I will!

Thomas Wendt has contacted me... I hope he can pull out a Robo from somewhere

Just to mention: I took my Machine down to ~1000 just by hand (it is not so good honestly... I can see the ball getting shiny after 8 games already again) and the M is doing the job better... not as good as desired but I can play it for high scores if I keep my game straight and not force too much hook on the ball...

on those lanes I found a tight line is better with a smoother roll...

Can I play it..

Oh yes! I now know how to make the Machine roll smooth or become a backend monster... all I have to do is swing freely or rev it up with my fingerwork...

Can I controll it`?

not good enough... I need to take some time and practice

But surely I would love to have a ball that does what the M does now but stronger and more reliable and I can shine the M back up a bit (well it will all by itself with time) and play the M where it is best... on meds!

I will see....

As I wrote... there are flaws in my game and thsoe often keep me from breaking through... but it is very frustrating being forced to play an undesired line...
The M is a great ball and I am glad I drilled it... but it is not really what works best on those lanes...
I play fast and I can rev it and yet often I saw the M skid throu... frustrating.. and then I have the line... let it roll and all ten go down as if pulled by strings... so satisfying!

I will see if the Robo will do the job if I can get one... on the more oily patterns it should be the best choice where the M is too weak... and then the M will do the Job once the Robo burns up.

Also I want to thank Thomas (username: TomWendt) already for his effords!
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Billy Ray on August 15, 2008, 09:25:34 AM
quote:
I will!

Thomas Wendt has contacted me... I hope he can pull out a Robo from somewhere

Just to mention: I took my Machine down to ~1000 just by hand (it is not so good honestly... I can see the ball getting shiny after 8 games already again) and the M is doing the job better... not as good as desired but I can play it for high scores if I keep my game straight and not force too much hook on the ball...

on those lanes I found a tight line is better with a smoother roll...

Can I play it..

Oh yes! I now know how to make the Machine roll smooth or become a backend monster... all I have to do is swing freely or rev it up with my fingerwork...

Can I controll it`?

not good enough... I need to take some time and practice

But surely I would love to have a ball that does what the M does now but stronger and more reliable and I can shine the M back up a bit (well it will all by itself with time) and play the M where it is best... on meds!

I will see....

As I wrote... there are flaws in my game and thsoe often keep me from breaking through... but it is very frustrating being forced to play an undesired line...
The M is a great ball and I am glad I drilled it... but it is not really what works best on those lanes...
I play fast and I can rev it and yet often I saw the M skid throu... frustrating.. and then I have the line... let it roll and all ten go down as if pulled by strings... so satisfying!

I will see if the Robo will do the job if I can get one... on the more oily patterns it should be the best choice where the M is too weak... and then the M will do the Job once the Robo burns up.

Also I want to thank Thomas (username: TomWendt) already for his effords!
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")




Its So nice to Actually hear someone acknowledge they need to practice! I constantly help people in the bowling center who just don't understand the need to practice even on today's soft conditions. Although I will admit I am a HUGE hipocrit about practice. I really do not like practicing alone and honestly I know my game suffers at times. I use my League nights as practice for tournaments and come off as over critical of my game in league when I shoot 230 and complain about how bad I bowled. I just know in a tournament that was a 190 game or worse sometimes. Keep up the hard work.

Also Thomas is a great resource for older equipment. I think he has an underground bunker filled with Track stuff! LOL but even he couldn't find me a 15# Nuke NIB! LOL

Good Luck
--------------------
Billy Ray
Track Pro Staff
www.raysproshop.com
"Let Us Help You Become More Competitive"
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Grayson on August 19, 2008, 02:19:02 PM
Thomas has not repsonded yet... guess this will take some time... but a former club member of mine had a Mean Machine

Never came to grips with the ball... Maybe I can get this one. Let's see.

I also found that the lanes are getting (by miracle ) getting drier again as the weather is getting colder and the staff might have noticed that the oil is a bit.... well... I bet the next weeks it will get "normal" again...

But nevertheless I want that stronger "Robo-cored" ball... either a Robo or a Meany.

When I get a Meany I will redrill it smoother (MB kicked out) ... arcing drilling with the Pin in a bit earlier position to keep the ball stronger and smoother than the Machine.

I will see when I get a Robo...

cya
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: LaneHammer20 on August 19, 2008, 03:40:02 PM
there are robo's on ebay. I THINK I saw a few NIB's a few days ago.
--------------------

Arsenal:
-Big Bang
-Buzz
-Hawgzilla
-Spare Tire

FOR SALE:
Faball Black Hammer 16lb
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: TomWendt on August 19, 2008, 06:19:19 PM
Hello Grayson

guckst du hier: www.porkysproshop.com/track_robo_rule.asp?cat=48

I asked A. Block, Berlin about the robo, please wait until thursday.

@Billy
Sorry Bill, the nuke I have is 14 and the only one in my collection -)
--------------------
tomtrack
aka the madman
Track staffer intern.
Track Hitman intern.
proud member of the legion
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Grayson on August 20, 2008, 02:47:19 AM
Thanks!

quote:
Hello Grayson

guckst du hier: www.porkysproshop.com/track_robo_rule.asp?cat=48

I asked A. Block, Berlin about the robo, please wait until thursday.

@Billy
Sorry Bill, the nuke I have is 14 and the only one in my collection -)
--------------------
tomtrack
aka the madman
Track staffer intern.
Track Hitman intern.
proud member of the legion

--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Mark T. Trgovac on August 20, 2008, 02:58:48 AM
It didnt say on the link but keep in mind that the MB on the Robo is only .010. The mean machine was .020.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Official "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio
Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

Happily distributing the red pills of CGNOMADDA. "if you take this pill, YOUR MIND WILL BE OPEN TO A WORLD OF NEW IDEAS."
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Grayson on August 20, 2008, 03:04:55 AM
but aren't all using the same core?

or is the Mean Machine different
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Mark T. Trgovac on August 20, 2008, 03:21:44 AM
They use the same core but the MB strength can be raised or lowered. If I remember correct Del at the time the Robo core was put in the Machine said he was able to take it from the .010 and lower all the way up to around .042+. The core is the same but the core numbers changed. The robo had numbers of a rg of 2.51, a Diff of 0.52, and a Inter-Diff of .010. The mean had a RG of 2.54, Diff of 0.50, and a Inter-Diff off .020. This meant the placement of the MB was twice as important because it was 2 times as influential on reaction due to placement.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Official "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio
Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

Happily distributing the red pills of CGNOMADDA. "if you take this pill, YOUR MIND WILL BE OPEN TO A WORLD OF NEW IDEAS."
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Grayson on August 20, 2008, 08:51:18 AM
mhh... the Robo is seducing... the price is ok and I guess it "would" be alright... but I can get the MM used with a reasonable pricing, too I guess... and I am also waiting for mor imput... but nevertheless let's assume...

There is a Robo Rule a Machine and a Mean Machine..

the Machine is drilled. Pin next to ring slightly above the fingers (not much... almopst nothing) and the ball is a monster on meds... nice midlane not too much and strong backend movement... no skid flip... but not a pure arc either.

looks a bit like this:

O_O pin....
...........
...........
.......cg...
..............X
............
.O...BC.....

I'll hand in a picture...

Then how would you drill the Robo and the MM to work on more oil or even on oil?

Just assuming
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: williewc on August 21, 2008, 02:20:55 AM
you should be able to drill the meany the same as the Machine and get basically the same reaction shape, but will handle more oil and be stronger overall than the machine
--------------------

Proud member of the Track Legion

Tag Team Coaching Success Story

Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Mark T. Trgovac on August 21, 2008, 05:32:07 AM
For the robo rule I would go something like this

---------------
---O-O---------
-----p---------
------------
-------cg
-----------
---O-------mb/bc---

or

------------
-----O-O----p
-------------
-----------cg
------------
------O-----mb/bc
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Official "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio
Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

Happily distributing the red pills of CGNOMADDA. "if you take this pill, YOUR MIND WILL BE OPEN TO A WORLD OF NEW IDEAS."
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Grayson on August 21, 2008, 06:06:33 AM
thanks for the advices...

For the ROBO:

This will give me a smooth arc I guess with placing the pin lower also making the ball roll earlier and with a bit longer pin-pap than on my Machine keep it controllable?


--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Mark T. Trgovac on August 22, 2008, 02:42:26 AM
Yes,

Backend is great to have but if you are looking for a oil ball, you dont want backend reaction to be the only or majority of the reaction. You want a strong arc that would give you good solid reaction throughout the lane. The second layout I gave would give alot more throughout the lane the first will give you slightly more on the back. Both will work but if you go with the first I would say keep the cover slightly lower so you still get the good solid grab in oil.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Official "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio
Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

Happily distributing the red pills of CGNOMADDA. "if you take this pill, YOUR MIND WILL BE OPEN TO A WORLD OF NEW IDEAS."
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Grayson on August 23, 2008, 05:40:51 PM
I just deep cleaned my Machine using "my" method .. the hot  water bath and man was the water milky and white of the oil.... I guess I didn't do a good job last time...

needed 4 cycles till the water stayed clear and clean and the ball is squeaky clean now... guess that was the problem... the ball was "filled up" with oil... I need a beer now ....

cya

btw... the Robo is getting closer now just need to see how I can raise som additional funds... the Mean Machine is sold already and no way getting one.

Guess the Robo is better choice anyway...

cya
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: six pack on August 23, 2008, 06:40:02 PM
incase you have'nt seen this http://www.bowlingball.com/info/track-drilling-layout.html
--------------------
The harder I try the harder they fall
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: RCKYURWLD on August 23, 2008, 09:14:04 PM
I still say that using Clean and Dull regularly will prevent ball death. Yes, it is all about regular coverstock maintenance.
--------------------


Randy

Proud Member of the Track Legion

See profile for arsenal

Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: six pack on August 23, 2008, 09:42:54 PM
I've never had ball death problems.I did see some equipment mellow out a little but once you adjust or refresh the cover the ball is never exactly the same,not really an issue.I think if people would just buy a prsonal spinner they would be happy with the performance of their quipment.BTW a little off topic.
--------------------
The harder I try the harder they fall
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: AdrianS on August 24, 2008, 02:52:55 AM
I've got something similar to the 2nd layout you described on mine Scoop, its sets up pretty hard from a fairly early breakpoint. Once its mailed up here im gonna try it and my Machine(which i didnt redrill in the end!!) as a 1-2 punch
--------------------
Time for some REAL bowling!!!
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Grayson on August 26, 2008, 02:28:32 AM
I found a Robo Rule... used but for a reasonable price. The guy will send me pictures and then I will see... maybe a redrill isn't even necessary.

Yesterday I found again that my Machine skidded too much. But the ball is not skidding because it has not the power or lost it but because I play some good faster.

Increased ballspeed from 13mph up to 15mph so I really am not blaiming the ball. I also did that "deoil"-water bath last weekend and it is squeaky clean and when I slowed down to my old speed it hookes like in the old days... but it is feeling wierd... the speed is so "natural" as I have a free swing and just let it go... and still have the revs... but of course the ball skids now. I has no chance at this speed with my revs. And I don't want to force more on the ball - this will not work!
Been there...done that...failed....

Will see how the Robo does... my C+ is working somehow but is also not a real oiler... and it has a backend drilling and as stated above... not the right layout for oilier conditions... but it is not "oily" per se... I just want a stronger ball and I want a smoother ball

Robo will do it.

--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")




Edited on 8/26/2008 2:29 AM

Edited on 8/26/2008 2:31 AM
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Mark T. Trgovac on August 26, 2008, 07:13:19 AM
quote:
I found a Robo Rule... used but for a reasonable price. The guy will send me pictures and then I will see... maybe a redrill isn't even necessary.

Yesterday I found again that my Machine skidded too much. But the ball is not skidding because it has not the power or lost it but because I play some good faster.

Increased ballspeed from 13mph up to 15mph so I really am not blaiming the ball. I also did that "deoil"-water bath last weekend and it is squeaky clean and when I slowed down to my old speed it hookes like in the old days... but it is feeling wierd... the speed is so "natural" as I have a free swing and just let it go... and still have the revs... but of course the ball skids now. I has no chance at this speed with my revs. And I don't want to force more on the ball - this will not work!
Been there...done that...failed....

Will see how the Robo does... my C+ is working somehow but is also not a real oiler... and it has a backend drilling and as stated above... not the right layout for oilier conditions... but it is not "oily" per se... I just want a stronger ball and I want a smoother ball

Robo will do it.

--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")




Edited on 8/26/2008 2:29 AM

Edited on 8/26/2008 2:31 AM


Grayson,

With the speed increase you may now need to mess slightly with the cover on your machine to help it match back up with your game. What is the surface of your machine right now.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Official "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio
Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

Happily distributing the red pills of CGNOMADDA. "if you take this pill, YOUR MIND WILL BE OPEN TO A WORLD OF NEW IDEAS."
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Grayson on August 26, 2008, 07:40:25 AM
You're right!

I had the Machine at 800 & 1000 and it was very good and working... now it is slightly getting polished up and I guess... well... it could be 1500 or even 2000 (not really compareable I have no 2000 pads right now)

But I want the Machine to be that way! The other center has a very nasty oil pattern:

38ft
outter 5-7 boards completly unoiled (depending on the staff's daily mood etc.)
Big flooded Block of oil in the middle

a bit THS-like but all balls run dead outside (burn up in the dry zone) esspecially the Machine at 800-1000 whereas my weak pearl for drier lanes does not like to be played there at all as it either skids too much in the middle part or also burns up.
Just for you to realize how dry it is... I play my XXXL there on the outter boards as I play my Machine at the older center!

...so I let the Machine stay shiny a bit and have a very good ball for both centers as the Machine blends that wet/dry transition very well and also worked at the old center... but I finally speeded up my balls
 I could try to find the middle-way but I will get the Robo now and see how it works - so I don't want to... The C+ is doing the Job right now... I am just not very happy with the reaction atm. The C+ has a nice midlane but a tremendous strong backend with a reaction I yet need to get used to and controll it...

I get the Robo for a good price and will test it.. I also might run into some real oil during winter league anbd then I will have a real oil ball with the ROBO.
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")
Title: Re: Is this the answer?
Post by: Grayson on August 28, 2008, 03:31:20 PM
forget it... the Robo was redrilled three times on the thumb and I guess I pissed the guy off when I saw this ball and wrote some harsh words so... no cheap Robo.

I went to the Lanes today and tried around again and the Machine needs some more surface for my speed. It is strong enough with a duller surface.... I had some marvelous strikes with my C+ today which turns the corner but is very sharp and sometimes hard to controll.

And worst case got real! We have 4 new centers on our tour so I really need a good arsenal for winter existing of at least two balls...

Let's see what I can do now.
I will take the Machine down to 1000grit.
The C+ is too much on the backend right now... will polish the ball to give me another look
so...

right now... no Robo....
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')

Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")

Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")