win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Looking for more hand..  (Read 2674 times)

WindDancer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Looking for more hand..
« on: November 07, 2007, 12:44:53 PM »
Ok, so I was at the local alley last night throwing some practice games, and am still having trouble getting the reaction I am looking for from the Kinetic. I mentioned my woes to the manager, who is our resident "guru", and he said I am not getting enough hand in the ball. From what I understand, this is a reference to not getting enough rev's on the ball.

So my question is this:  Where do I start when wanting to increase my revolution rate?

 

J_Mac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6778
Re: Looking for more hand..
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2007, 08:49:44 PM »
Freeing up a muscled armswing can add revs...
Dropping ball weight can do the same...
--------------------
"A word to the wise ain't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice."  Bill Cosby
"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Grayson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1411
Re: Looking for more hand..
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2007, 01:59:44 AM »
well... I am not a Guru (gurus are those "skinny-type not-eating-enough looking-as if-they-have-intestinal obstruction-all-the-time )

I'll just tell you what I found for myself (took me some time but hell it works):

Hand position and free armswing ar the key in my oppinion combined with a good timing in your release.
So what do I mean exactly?

You told us you want a different reaction and your local "guru" says you don't have enough hand in your ball.

Well, I don't know how you bowl (got a vid?) but in general and this seems to work for everyone I would suggest:
- try let the arm swing freely without much force in your pendulum
(of course you need to get along and if you think you do so already forget this)
- try to keep your hand behind or under the ball in different positions to create different reactions
 (even if you use a wrist brace you can make a lot of adjustments just by changing where you put your hand when you hold the ball: more under or more to the side of the ball; assuming you keep your handposition; Just try around a bit - that's what's training good for!)
- release is not release! I can rev the heck out of the ball and I can also shoot a low rev straight ball by opening my wrist (if you use a wrist brace/-support this won't help you I know but...) you can also change the change the amount of revs by changing your "follow thru":
  This will take a bit longer to explain:
I assume the ball comes off your hand nice and smooth and you don't have to "grab" it or otherwise the drilling is not 100% as it should be. So when the ball leaves the thumb (or the thumb gets out of the ball ... this is better to understand) you give the ball rotation with the upward movement of your arm while the ball still hangs on to your fingers.
At this moment you can make a strong arm movement to increase revs! Just angle your elbow up to your shoulder at this moment and you will decrease ball speed while increasing revs and so increasing hook. and when you need less hook you can keep your arm straight and just do the normal follow thru.
I know this is not a common thing and I guess some people will have to chime in and say whether my idea of change in follow thru is good or not.

Another possibility to increase revs is to "grab" the ball... well not grab it in the common sense! I mean let it go freely of your hand but again the moment the thumb is free just angle in your fingers. (I admit I can't do that... I just can't controll it... but I know a lot of people revving the ball not only with the arm-upswing but also with their fingers! I also read an article refering to which finger to use to create more lenght or early roll! only pulling on the ball with teh ring means more hook and using the middle only means more lenght... I read this... again: I can't controll it... so I keep my hand under the ball and let it go... similar to what Pete Weber does)

Again a matter of timing!

so here are my three possibilities for you to change reaction:
- armswing ( the moment the ball is of the thumb - pull your arm up)
- fingers  ( the moment the ball is of the thumb - pull with your fingers)
- hand and wrist position play a big role! more sideroll or more forward roll change ball reaction also..

You will have to try around to see what works (keep in mind people are different and what works for me might not work for you ... and what doesn't work for me might just be fine for you like the thing with the fingers)
... and I guess others will chime in and give better advice as I can just tell you what I found on the net and in books and found out for myself.

Wish you the best!
--------------------
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I aks what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\ /)
(x_x)
c.(')(')

WindDancer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Re: Looking for more hand..
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2007, 09:11:49 PM »
quote:
well... I am not a Guru (gurus are those "skinny-type not-eating-enough looking-as if-they-have-intestinal obstruction-all-the-time )

I'll just tell you what I found for myself (took me some time but hell it works):

Hand position and free armswing ar the key in my opinion combined with a good timing in your release.
So what do I mean exactly?

You told us you want a different reaction and your local "guru" says you don't have enough hand in your ball.

Well, I don't know how you bowl (got a vid?) but in general and this seems to work for everyone I would suggest:
- try let the arm swing freely without much force in your pendulum
(of course you need to get along and if you think you do so already forget this)
- try to keep your hand behind or under the ball in different positions to create different reactions
 (even if you use a wrist brace you can make a lot of adjustments just by changing where you put your hand when you hold the ball: more under or more to the side of the ball; assuming you keep your handposition; Just try around a bit - that's what's training good for!)
- release is not release! I can rev the heck out of the ball and I can also shoot a low rev straight ball by opening my wrist (if you use a wrist brace/-support this won't help you I know but...) you can also change the change the amount of revs by changing your "follow thru":
  This will take a bit longer to explain:
I assume the ball comes off your hand nice and smooth and you don't have to "grab" it or otherwise the drilling is not 100% as it should be. So when the ball leaves the thumb (or the thumb gets out of the ball ... this is better to understand) you give the ball rotation with the upward movement of your arm while the ball still hangs on to your fingers.
At this moment you can make a strong arm movement to increase revs! Just angle your elbow up to your shoulder at this moment and you will decrease ball speed while increasing revs and so increasing hook. and when you need less hook you can keep your arm straight and just do the normal follow thru.
I know this is not a common thing and I guess some people will have to chime in and say whether my idea of change in follow thru is good or not.

Another possibility to increase revs is to "grab" the ball... well not grab it in the common sense! I mean let it go freely of your hand but again the moment the thumb is free just angle in your fingers. (I admit I can't do that... I just can't control it... but I know a lot of people revving the ball not only with the arm-upswing but also with their fingers! I also read an article referring to which finger to use to create more lenght or early roll! only pulling on the ball with the ring means more hook and using the middle only means more lenght... I read this... again: I can't control it... so I keep my hand under the ball and let it go... similar to what Pete Weber does)

Again a matter of timing!

so here are my three possibilities for you to change reaction:
- armswing ( the moment the ball is of the thumb - pull your arm up)
- fingers  ( the moment the ball is of the thumb - pull with your fingers)
- hand and wrist position play a big role! more sideroll or more forward roll change ball reaction also..

You will have to try around to see what works (keep in mind people are different and what works for me might not work for you ... and what doesn't work for me might just be fine for you like the thing with the fingers)
... and I guess others will chime in and give better advice as I can just tell you what I found on the net and in books and found out for myself.

Wish you the best!
--------------------
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I aks what about the genius?" - Grayson

(\ /)
(x_x)
c.(')(')


I think ultimately, my thumb hole is not drilled correctly. I plan on going to see Carl and Scoot about that after Thanksgiving. I can't say that my ball is drilled properly all the way around, but buying another ball is not an option for me. So I need to make what I have work.

The ball is a 16 pounder, and I had the option when I bought it to go lighter, but I don't have issues with throwing 16lbs around. I was worried about my ball speed increasing too much by going to a lighter ball. Granted, I do muscle the ball some. How else do you get ball speed if you aren't putting some arm into it?  

I will have to give your tips a try. There are quite a few that I can try there so I might just have to print off the message and take it with me.

Otherwise, I look forward to any other idea's.  Thanks Guy's.

Bob

lsf_21

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3310
Re: Looking for more hand..
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2007, 09:47:11 PM »
you can have all my hand you want.
--------------------
HIGHLANDER BOWL-HOME OF THE BACK ROW!
http://lsf.bowlspace.com/
averagejoesproshop.com
GO CUBS!!!!

WindDancer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Re: Looking for more hand..
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2007, 03:19:07 PM »
After some time practicing, I just don't seem to be getting any reaction out of the ball. I am going to keep after it though. I plan on looking more into the surface of the ball too. That might be some of my problem also. My Ebonite Crush has a Green Scotchbrite Finish, so around 600 grit from what I have read. The Kinetic is still box finish. It just seems that for some reason my Ebonite retains it's energy with a continuous arc, and the kinetic goes straight or has a "mini" snap, but overall much less than the Crush.

Any Suggestions?


Weaser

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 556
Re: Looking for more hand..
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2007, 08:19:49 PM »
Ask Carl before you do this - knock off some of the shine with a white scotchbrite by hand (will accelerate the break in period)- or possibly ball is not used on the correct volume of oil (too little/too much oil minimizes backend).
--------------------
Gary
Proud Member of the Track Legion
Tag Team Coaching Success Story

WindDancer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Re: Looking for more hand..
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2007, 12:42:55 AM »
I am planning on going to see Carl and Scoot over the next few days. I hope I can find out how much of the problem is me, and how much of it is the ball.

WindDancer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Re: Looking for more hand..
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2007, 09:59:19 PM »
Just an update. I am going to see Carl Friday to have my ball re-drilled. He already has it plugged and says that everything check's out ok.

I practiced five games Tuesday on just my release, trying to be more like Chris Barnes <sp>, and after working on it while bowling league tonight, I had both my high game and high series for the year, all with my old ball. By the end of the night, I was standing on the 25th board, throwing through the 15th board, having it break around board seven, and then go brooklyn!  Talk about some rev's. So I figure if I can keep this up, then when I get to throw the Kinetic, it will just be brutal.

I will keep you all posted.

NicholasE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1744
Re: Looking for more hand..
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2007, 10:17:33 PM »
Sounds like your getting it figured out but a way to put some revs on the ball is to cup your wrist. There was a artical in bowlers journal a couple months ago that explained exactly that. I, sometimes, have to much of a rev and the balls can be jumpy off the dry which is not any fun when your playing on dry lanes and the weakest ball that you have your covering about 20 boards and still not striking.

For me when Im in the release I let the thumb slip out and while its coming out of the ball my armswing is coming up and I can really rip up with my two fingers and put alot of revs, even with a straight wrist and no cupping I can really put out some revs. Just natural for me for being more of an accuracy player with big power and high speeds. But with the high speeds you need some revs to make it back to the pocket also, so its half and half for me, kind of good and kinda not just depending on the lanes really.

spinner031

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1000
Re: Looking for more hand..
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2007, 06:41:29 PM »
quote:
Sounds like your getting it figured out but a way to put some revs on the ball is to cup your wrist...

...even with a straight wrist and no cupping I can really put out some revs.



I don't know.  I have to use a brace that cups my wrist and the ball still doesn't hook very much (Machine at 500).

NicholasE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1744
Re: Looking for more hand..
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2007, 06:47:52 PM »
quote:
quote:
Sounds like your getting it figured out but a way to put some revs on the ball is to cup your wrist...

...even with a straight wrist and no cupping I can really put out some revs.



I don't know.  I have to use a brace that cups my wrist and the ball still doesn't hook very much (Machine at 500).


With a brace you will never get any revs. The brace is a restraint pretty much on your wrist if its the glove type. the Only brace that I have seen that allows players to get more revs, is the one that looks like a major contraption on the arm where there is no glove. I have the Glove one and I can't get hardly any revs because my hand is not free and can't rip up on the ball, so I got my wrist in shape where I don't use the brace so I can rip the coverstock off the ball.

Trackoholic

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 202
Re: Looking for more hand..
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2007, 09:32:51 AM »
Here's a good description of how to crank, Near the end of the page

http://home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/FAQ.htm#HOW%20TO%20CRANK
--------------------
Inertia-Black Widow-Machine-Power Machine-Mystic-Desert Heat-Neptune-Plastic

Edited on 12/2/2007 10:33 AM

spinner031

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1000
Re: Looking for more hand..
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2007, 05:11:14 PM »
quote:
With a brace you will never get any revs. The brace is a restraint pretty much on your wrist if its the glove type. the Only brace that I have seen that allows players to get more revs, is the one that looks like a major contraption on the arm where there is no glove. I have the Glove one and I can't get hardly any revs because my hand is not free and can't rip up on the ball, so I got my wrist in shape where I don't use the brace so I can rip the coverstock off the ball.



I use a Revs III:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31KD6B3EZXL._AA280_.jpg

But my biggest problem is knowning when to let go of the ball.