Author Topic: Low Ball Spin Times........Are they For Everyone???? (Read 1371 times)

Brickguy221 · « **on:** February 03, 2006, 07:07:35 AM »

I posted this in the miscellaneous column yesterday and have received very little response to it, so am going to post it here as this TRACK Forum seems to be the most helpful on the entire BR site regardless of whether it is a TRACK ball or not. For what it's worth, no these problem balls are not "all" Track balls. Some are from other companies. Any how, here is what I need help/advisement on.........

........I've had some problems with some of the newer balls that supposedly have 5 second spin times and/or spin times in that area. They don't hook right or go to the pocket like they should and don't hit well when they do reach the pocket regardless of lane conditions or type of lanes.

I can pick up balls that have longer spin times, never tested spin times, strong covers, weaker covers, strong cores, weaker cores, etc. on the same conditions and these balls all work like they should.

Also on these balls with low spin times, I've plugged, redrilled, etc. trying various drillings, PIN positions, MB positions, etc. to try to make them work and it is still to no avail as they still don't work.

I have come to the conclusion that with my style of lower revs and speed (read my profile), that the balls with low spin times rev up too quick and lose their power long before they get to the pins. Even with high pins, it still seems to be the case.

Out of 3 of these balls that I have bought in the last few months, one of them will try to work a wee bit or so-so if I can release it with approximately a 90 degree release at the point of release (which I seldom can, due to my style) and it goes down the lane turning at approximately 90 degrees and not 20-30-45 degrees or so, it will show signs of trying to work. Also on these balls, I have tried every cover surface change imagineable and it does no good.

On my other balls with the same or similar drillings, it is the opposite. If I release at approximately 90 degrees or so, they skid past the break point and never recover good, but at 20-30-45 degrees, they work great.

To sum it up, my theory of all of this is that the low spin time balls rev too soon for me regardless of drilling and lose their "stuff" long before they get to the pins, where as my other balls do their skid, roll, and hook thing and work.

Does anyone agree with this and if not, do they ahve an explaination otherwise?

I need help here to keep from buying the wrong balls as happened with the last 3 I have bought. This gets expensive..........

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Brick

Edited on 2/3/2006 3:58 PM

chitown · « **Reply #1 on:** February 03, 2006, 03:15:24 PM »

You may be correct. I feel this could be the same for high rev players. From what I see coming out from the ball company's are real strong balls that rev really fast.

For me I have started buying balls that are not the big name top shelf super hookers. I feel the good old symmetrical mid-priced balls are perfect for my game. Plus it's easier to figure out what layout you want.

Brickguy221 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 03, 2006, 03:24:17 PM »

quote:
I feel the good old symmetrical mid-priced balls are perfect for my game. Plus it's easier to figure out what layout you want.

Like the Arsenal series?

I would say that maybe I should stick to symmetric cores, but the HAVOC which has been a great ball for me is an assymetric ball, and has around a 11 second PSA. Also the past Storm balls like Triple X, Depth Charge, etc. that are assymetric balls but with higher spin times worked for me.

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Brick

SteveAustin2808 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 03, 2006, 03:31:50 PM »

Hey BrickGuy,

I have to agree with you about this...the X-Ception 5.0 is a good example for my style. The first one I had was with Pin Below the Bridge and I absolutely hated it. Couldn't get the ball to turn the corner when my feet were left and when I moved right, I couldn't keep it on the right side, it dove everytime...to me I got horrible over/under reaction. Sold it to my buddy and he has had 2 300's with it since! Of course, he throws the ball totally different than I do. With this I thought the same as you, that it might've been the layout. So I had another one drilled Stacked Leverage with a weight hole. Again, I ran into the same result, horrible over/under and same type of ball reaction as with the last one. Sold this one to a youth bowler I know and he is killing it. I don't know how to conlude this except that BRICK, you maybe right as far as these balls with quicker spin times. The original X-Ception I had all the success in the world with, but I never could figure out the 5.0...God Bless you and have a great week!

--Michael--
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Brickguy221 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 03, 2006, 03:40:50 PM »

Michael, thanks for the input. FYI, I had the same identical experience with my 5.0. The other two balls of which I had the exact same experience with are from other companies, so it is not just TRACK balls with low PSA'a that didn't work for me.

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Brick

fabes · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2006, 06:31:03 PM »

I love the 5.0, I may be the exception.

I am higher speed and not a lot of revs, but it is just the ball for me anytime there is anything short of a flood, or dry as toast. Threw two different balls Wednesday night the first game, GP2 and then a Smokin, for a 195. Pull out the 5.0 and shoot 279-246 the last two. Whatever it is, it has been and will continue to be my go-to ball. The mass bias is strong with the pin under the ring.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/fabes31/detail?.dir=649b&.dnm=aae4re2.jpg&.src=ph

I will continue to grab this first out of the bag, I get mad when I use something else first.

fabes

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2006, 10:44:39 PM »

I am one of the guys that have had very good success with the 5.0.

I do not know if I would be able to pin point the problems that some of you have had with the ball. I used mine on a variety of lane conditions and surfaces and I did not have a problem getting it to turn over.

Maybe the coverstock was the problem for some (like DPat mentioned). I have drilled many of these balls for several different styled bowlers, and majority were more than happy with it.

As for the spin time.....Brickguy, I don't think that is the problem. I know you had problems with the 5.0.........and absolutely love the Havoc. What were the other balls that you had problems with? Maybe this can help us get to the bottom of it.

-Carl
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C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio

Track Intl.-Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
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Tag Team Member #1

Brickguy221 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 04, 2006, 12:30:34 AM »

quote:
As for the spin time.....Brickguy, I don't think that is the problem. I know you had problems with the 5.0.........and absolutely love the Havoc. What were the other balls that you had problems with? Maybe this can help us get to the bottom of it.

Carl, I am not complaining about the 5.0 and am not mad that it failed me, as everyone buys a ball now and then that doesn't work for them. What I am getting at is that all balls I have had with low spin times in the 5 second range have failed me. I really don't want to name the other balls and get other manufacturers balls involved, but trust me, they have similar spin times to the 5.0.

As for the HAVOC which has been a really great ball for me, I believe it has something like a 11 second spin time. I don't know what the spin time on other balls I have had that were great balls for me like the Triple X, Depth Charge, Triple X Extreme, V2 Pearl as well as the HAVOC and other similar balls I have had that worked, but I'm sure they were more in the range of the Havoc and not the 5 second range.

Most of the balls with higher spin times that did work were drilled in the area of with the Pin under RF or beside RF. The reason for this is because with my low revs and lower speed, these balls needed help in the mid-lane to get reving and that drilling gave them that help. Now, my theory on the 5 second range balls is that they seem to rev in the mid-lane without any help and that coupled with my slower speed and low revs allows them to play out by the time they get to the dry to make their move.

Now with a 90 degree release at the release point, they will skid further than they do with more forward type roll like 30-45 degree rolls and thus have something left when they get to the dry. Now, if I throw a higher spin time ball with the 90 degree release, they will skid too far before making a move. My problem with a 70-80-90 degree release is that I can't make one on a consistant basis.

I may be all wrong here, but what other explaination would there be for it? Just two days ago, I had one of the balls plugged and re-drilled with a different layout. I threw my Triple X, V2 Pearl, and HAVOC with the same 30-40 degree forward roll and they worked like they should. I then threw the ball I had redone and it was still the same problem I had before re-doing it. Driller changed ball surface twice and it didn't help. Driller told me to come around ball as much as I possibly could and BINGO, the ball worked, but I can't release it that way everytime. I am not a cranker type bowler.

This is what I have based my thoughts on, but I could be wrong.

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Brick

Brickguy221 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 04, 2006, 11:23:02 AM »

quote:
slow speed matches to a low revrate, so that should not be part of the issue.

KOTM, were it not for the higher spin time balls working, I would be inclined to agree with you. However since the higher spin time balls work and the low spin time balls don't, what is the reason??? With the low spin time balls reving sooner, doesn't that explain how these balls can burn up their energy (especially for a slower speed bowler) too soon whereas the high spin time balls skid in this same area thus reserving their energy? I honestly don't know and this is all my theory, but with the results I am getting, I don't know what else to think.

quote:
if the overall tendancy of the balls is the early expenditure of energy, then my first though is to head in the other extreme from the initial layout of your 5.0...

Ron, it is not just the 5.0. I have 2 other balls not from TRACK that give the same results as the 5.0

quote:
have you tried (in your myriad of experiments) laying out the pin closer to axis to cut flare and get the initial psa nearer the track?

Ron, I haven't tried that. If you like, I can draw out some pictures and Email them to you of what I have tried.

What will this Pin closer to axis do? If it cuts down on the flare, then wouldn't putting the Pin further from the axis do the same thing plus give the ball more length to delay it's action and reserve it for further down the lane?

I've tried Pin under RF, Pin beside and above RF, Pin over RF, MB 1" right of thumb, 1 1/2" right, 2" right, etc. and all failed.

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Brick

OG1 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2006, 08:12:07 PM »

have you tried to put the MB 6-7" from your pap to delay the reaction.
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Did they run the oil machine? Was there any oil in it.....

Brickguy221 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2006, 09:41:39 PM »

quote:
thats because all of those positions will flare a bunch, Brick...

Ron, what about the balls with high spin times that work and drilled the same as the balls with low spin times that don't work. In other words why does one group work and the other doesn't?

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Brick

Greg T · « **Reply #11 on:** February 06, 2006, 01:02:45 PM »

Since I will no longer post advice on this board, PM sent.
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Author Topic: Low Ball Spin Times........Are they For Everyone???? (Read 1371 times)

Brickguy221

Low Ball Spin Times........Are they For Everyone????

chitown

Re: Low Ball Spin Times........Are they For Everyone????

Brickguy221

Re: Low Ball Spin Times........Are they For Everyone????

SteveAustin2808

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Brickguy221

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fabes

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C-G ProShop-Carl

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Brickguy221

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Brickguy221

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OG1

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Brickguy221

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Greg T

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