Author Topic: Machine w/ MB left of thumb (Read 3099 times)

splendorlex · « **on:** August 10, 2006, 07:55:44 AM »

Is this necessarily bad to have the MB placed left of the thumb for a right handed bowler? My Father in Law has one drilled like this, and I told him it might not be good for that particular ball (he went to a new driller), and I'm wondering what the general consensus is. His pin is below the ring w/ the cg 2" right or so, there is a balance hole as well on the grip midline.
--------------------
Check out my bowling journal!
http://www.allbowling.com/journal/public.php?uid=1792&leagueid=912

I'm not a bowler, but I do play one on Ballreviews.

If you don't like Wrigley, you might as well leave the country and join the Taliban.

tenpinspro · « **Reply #1 on:** August 10, 2006, 04:07:31 PM »

Hey splendor,

As we all know (or should know by now

) that any asym ball with mb left of thumb calls for extreme length, it even has more influence on the Machine due to it's mb strength of .025.

One question, is he a down and in player? If he is, he may be able to make use of this fairly well. The ball will naturally still push down lane for him even though it's a pin in drill. Hope this helps some...
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl. - Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
Vise Inserts Staff
www.Trackbowling.com

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #2 on:** August 10, 2006, 08:31:00 PM »

lex,

I am in agreement with Rick. Placing the MB in that position significantly weakens a ball------------or does not necessarily take advantage of what the core has to offer as far as reaction.

-Carl
--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio

Track Intl.-Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
www.trackbowling.com

Tag Team Member #1
(tag team partners w/ Rick)

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #3 on:** August 10, 2006, 10:13:22 PM »

quote:
He does not have to be a down and inner to utilize the MB on the left of the thumb. Hey Rick have you ever heard of the Steve Cook Classic? The guys who hit that place are either up the back or have stuff drilled to lay off. I personally went nuts there when I drilled balls that layed off on the back. Used an X- Factor Duece and a Shock Trauma. By the way I was able to open the lane up with that lay out.

I think that Rick was speaking in general terms. When MOST people get a ball along the lines of the Machine they are expecting strong movement.......going left of thumb normally tames that down quite a bit.

--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio

Track Intl.-Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
www.trackbowling.com

Tag Team Member #1
(tag team partners w/ Rick)

Edited on 8/10/2006 10:43 PM

charlest · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2006, 10:47:05 PM »

If I got the picture straight ....

In other words, the higher the intermediate or mass bias differential, the fewer are the chances or valid reasons for placing the MB to the left of the thumb on a right handers ball.

In more "other" words, (IF) the farther from the PAP you place the MB AND the higher the mass bias differential, (THEN) the longer the ball will go before it starts to turn over (grab the lane, begin the hook to roll transition) and the less backend the ball will have, given the oil pattern, the surface of the ball and bowler's release specs and ball speed.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

SnoopyCanBowl · « **Reply #5 on:** August 11, 2006, 03:05:07 AM »

LOL!!! The boss(rick) is always right!

Check this out...this will answer ALL ya'll question.
http://www.ebonite.com/techcenter/pinposdynreact.php

I like the third paragraph. Didn't know about adding the rg and differential together and dividing it to know exact rg. All I know was the lower the rg the earlier it hook and higher the later it hook and differential is the amount it hook.
--------------------
Have Fun while You Can!!!!

dw23 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 11, 2006, 03:27:02 AM »

I've been reading a lot of articles about Mass Bias and one of the women in my league has a spinner release and slow speed. She is a really good bowler but the drier the lanes the more ten pin she sticks. I took her ball with a strong mass bias and redrilled it with the mb 1 inch left of the thumb. She is carrying so much better now because the ball stores more energy. Now she doesn't fear the lanes as much when the shot breaks down.

All this to say if he spins the ball he may get a little more pop on the back with this drilling.

Thanks,
DW

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #7 on:** August 11, 2006, 03:38:15 AM »

MB in track area is only dangerous for a high trcak player. Spinners/low trackers do not risk reverse flare and inconsistent ball reaction - even a high tracker does not necessarily run the risk of bad surprises. But to avoid any, drilling the MB beyond the thumb for a high tracker is not recommended.
--------------------

DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
Team "X" website & more about me: http://web.mac.com/timlinked/iWeb/X/Thomas.html
"The Future's So Bright I Gotta Wear Shades"

- PatMacDonald

CoachJim · « **Reply #8 on:** August 11, 2006, 03:53:56 AM »

Like Dizzy said, it doesn't matter where the mb is in relation to your thumb, it has to do with being closer than 2" from your track, if the person is a low tracker, then a mb position left of the thumb would be the same as a high tracker with the mb right of the thumb.

tenpinspro · « **Reply #9 on:** August 11, 2006, 03:59:32 AM »

KULAY,

You are correct and I was speaking in general terms. In regards to your equipment working for you, that simply means this layout matches up to your game. If you can open up the lane with it, that tells me either you have a higher rev to speed ratio and/or you have a higher axis rotation then most combined with a fair amount of tilt. From experience, any high tracker as dizzy mentions becomes subject to rolling over the gripping holes.

DW, this layout works for the spinner or low tracker because it actually raises the track which is what your friend may have needed to get the ball into a "roll" vs spinning down the lane too far and maybe entering the pocket too late (bad angle or never stood up). That's why high trackers also continue to roll up and that's what causes it to roll over the holes.

It all depends upon the ball guys, the Mean has a mb diff of .025. This I believe is stronger than any of the balls mentioned (I just wrote my Storm rep to find out). So Charlest, you are understanding this concept correctly.

Here's the simple one guys, if this were not true on an average, I would not expect this company to post it publicly and state what they do. This is on their ball with a mb diff of .027

Drilling #5 - *DO NOT DRILL* http://www.ebonite.com/techcenter/drilling_instructions.php?title=The%20One

--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl. - Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
Vise Inserts Staff
www.Trackbowling.com

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

tenpinspro · « **Reply #10 on:** August 11, 2006, 04:24:30 AM »

quote:
In more "other" words, (IF) the farther from the PAP you place the MB AND the higher the mass bias differential, (THEN) the longer the ball will go before it starts to turn over (grab the lane, begin the hook to roll transition) and the less backend the ball will have, given the oil pattern, the surface of the ball and bowler's release specs and ball speed.

Charlest, in addition to what I mentoined, the higher the mass bias diff, the more "influence" it will have on the ball's breakpoint. Take 2 asym balls, one mb at .015 and one at .025, (identical cover, rg, and differential hypothetically). Drill them identical for the bowler (pin and mb left of thumb in the same position from pap), the ball with the .025 mb should go significantly longer and have less overall movement comparatively. The magic number for influential mass bias is .008. So common sense tells us that a ball with a low mb diff (.010) has less effect (and can still hook) compared to a ball with .025 when placed in the same position from the bowler's pap. Hope this maks sense bud...
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl. - Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
Vise Inserts Staff
www.Trackbowling.com

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

Slopsurprise · « **Reply #11 on:** August 11, 2006, 08:54:11 AM »

Hey Rick, I know a guy with a very inverted track(further away from thumb than fingers) that always lays his MB left of thumb. I have seen him throw other balls with MB right of thumb and they do not work at all for him. With the MB left of thumb he still seems to get the balls full track flare and performance though. Does this have to do with his PAP being down vs. up?

Robadat · « **Reply #12 on:** August 11, 2006, 09:52:04 AM »

When drilling asym balls with the mb placed near the track, generally it will tame the ball down quite a bit. You would end up with a hook/set type of reaction out of the ball. If you are a hi-rev player it may be good for taming down flying backends. However, the ball will probably end up rolling out quite a bit for most players.

Bob

charlest · « **Reply #13 on:** August 11, 2006, 09:56:48 AM »

quote:
quote:
In more "other" words, (IF) the farther from the PAP you place the MB AND the higher the mass bias differential, (THEN) the longer the ball will go before it starts to turn over (grab the lane, begin the hook to roll transition) and the less backend the ball will have, given the oil pattern, the surface of the ball and bowler's release specs and ball speed.

Charlest, in addition to what I mentoined, the higher the mass bias diff, the more "influence" it will have on the ball's breakpoint. Take 2 asym balls, one mb at .015 and one at .025, (identical cover, rg, and differential hypothetically). Drill them identical for the bowler (pin and mb left of thumb in the same position from pap), the ball with the .025 mb should go significantly longer and have less overall movement comparatively. The magic number for influential mass bias is .008. So common sense tells us that a ball with a low mb diff (.010) has less effect (and can still hook) compared to a ball with .025 when placed in the same position from the bowler's pap. Hope this maks sense bud...
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl. - Amateur/Pro Shop Staff

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

I thought that WAS what I said, EL Presidente???
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

FBM357 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 11, 2006, 11:29:22 AM »

quote:
That sounds like my track. Although I have no asym. equipment with MB left of the thumb, I do have great success with pins LEFT of my bridge. Like pin above/below middle finger (right hander). Since regionals out here in the east seem to be putting down low volumes of oil, I was thinking of doing some MB left of thumb equipment.

Hmm, really interesting, as I've an inverted track as well and recently (for the first time) drilled a ball with pin under mid as well. Very good length and strong movement on the back. All of my other equipment is drilled with pin above, below and slightly to right of ring with MB kicked right of thumb. I also polish all of my equipment as well.

I had a ball drilled with MB left of thumb (original Rule) and I kid you not, it resembled a 'counter-steering' type movement. Other words, ball wanted to turn the corner, but forces were trying to pull it in the opposite direction, hence 'weak hit' or something similar to a 'hook set' type roll.
--------------------
Proud member of the Track Revolution - EMERITUS & Hitman

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results!"

Edited on 8/11/2006 11:24 AM

Author Topic: Machine w/ MB left of thumb (Read 3099 times)

splendorlex

Machine w/ MB left of thumb

tenpinspro

Re: Machine w/ MB left of thumb

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: Machine w/ MB left of thumb

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: Machine w/ MB left of thumb

charlest

Re: Machine w/ MB left of thumb

SnoopyCanBowl

Re: Machine w/ MB left of thumb

dw23

Re: Machine w/ MB left of thumb

dizzyfugu

Re: Machine w/ MB left of thumb

CoachJim

Re: Machine w/ MB left of thumb

tenpinspro

Re: Machine w/ MB left of thumb

tenpinspro

Re: Machine w/ MB left of thumb

Slopsurprise

Re: Machine w/ MB left of thumb

Robadat

Re: Machine w/ MB left of thumb

charlest

Re: Machine w/ MB left of thumb

FBM357

Re: Machine w/ MB left of thumb