BallReviews

Equipment Boards => Track => Topic started by: louie on September 28, 2005, 03:17:19 PM

Title: MY Rule GP2 is not all that strong
Post by: louie on September 28, 2005, 03:17:19 PM
I just picked up a Rule Gp2. It's drilled with the pin 3 inches above the center of my grip and about 5 inches from my Pap. The mb is on the VAl about 3 inches below my Pap. Weighthole on PAP. Box finish. I've tried my Rule in 2 different houses on fresh oil. It clears the heads, starts in the midlane and then arcs. There is enough oil. It is not burning up. My Formula (polished) is longer and has more backend. It covers nearly as many boards as the Rule and has more drive at the pocket. I was hoping that the Rule would give me the look of my old Angle Evolution Tour. It gave me a reactive type look on heavier oil with a similar drill. The RGP2 is typical old school Particle for me. Send it wide and it doesn't finish or carry well. Play is tight and you go through the nose repeatedly as the lanes transition. What a disappointment!
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Why does everyone laugh when I bowl?


louie
Title: Re: MY Rule GP2 is not all that strong
Post by: chitown on September 28, 2005, 11:35:32 PM
I'm sorry to hear that you don't like the reaction you got.  This is strange I must say.  It's very hard to answer some questions like this.  At least for me it's hard.  

I've heard a lot of people say they can't get particles to backend strong.  I feel this has a lot to do with how much hand you can put into the ball.  A great example is the Animal.  I have read a few reviews from people who have said this ball doesn't backend much.  For me this isn't the case at all.  My animal backends like crazy.  I can also play very deep with this ball.  This is particle but for me can backend just as hard as most reactive.

Can you give me more info on the type of condition you played on?  Also what style of player are you?  Basically give us as much info that you can so we can find out what the problem is.  I hope we can help you bud.  I don't own a gp2 but have seen one up close and in action.  On heavy oil this ball is strong.
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TAKE A RIDE ON THE TRACK EXPRESS!
THE REVOLUTION!
RIDE THE LIGHTNING!
Title: Re: MY Rule GP2 is not all that strong
Post by: louie on September 28, 2005, 11:57:49 PM
I can hook the ball a lot, but to do so I have to no thumb the ball. I'm trying to return to normalcy, so I have only tried the GP2 using my thumb. I am currently a low rev medium+ speed player. Very little tilt. Very small amount of hook. Tracking just next to both the fingers and the thumb hole.
I've tried the ball in two synthetic houses. Both houses use a 38 foot top hat pattern. Plenty of oil inside and almost no oil outside once you get through the heads. The Gp2 starts grabbing earlier than the Formula, but where the Formula really seems to rev itself up, the GP2 lopes down the lane laughing at my lack of hand. On the few shots I got a bit more tilt and turn on the ball, I got a much better reaction. Unfortunately, that's not my A game right now. My GP2 definitely looks like it would roll better if thrown better. I'm a fluffer right now and am looking for free hook. I think I looked in the wrong place!
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Why does everyone laugh when I bowl?


louie
Title: Re: MY Rule GP2 is not all that strong
Post by: chitown on September 29, 2005, 12:04:20 AM
Saw is correct.  Another thing to consider is adding some magic shine polish to it.  This actually might save some more enrgy for you and help it rev up in the backend.
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TAKE A RIDE ON THE TRACK EXPRESS!
THE REVOLUTION!
RIDE THE LIGHTNING!

Edited on 9/28/2005 11:57 PM
Title: Re: MY Rule GP2 is not all that strong
Post by: louie on September 29, 2005, 12:05:16 AM
Understood that in many ways tilt=hook. What I don't understand is why the Formula seems to skid/roll/hook and the Gp2 is all skid/roll. It's almost looks like the ball is waiting for something. It just looks lazy.
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Why does everyone laugh when I bowl?


louie
Title: Re: MY Rule GP2 is not all that strong
Post by: louie on September 29, 2005, 12:06:32 AM
I may polish. I just need this ball to be earlier than my polished Formula or it has no use.
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Why does everyone laugh when I bowl?


louie
Title: Re: MY Rule GP2 is not all that strong
Post by: icetink on September 29, 2005, 12:33:53 AM
Bowling balls:

Skid/Hook/Roll

With that said, the GP2 IS hooking, but it seems as though it may be losing too much energy up front (the ball loses speed too quickly) and therefore not having enough energy to turn the corner.

Here's a video of an Arsenal Aggressive:

-On the first shot, the ball is in OOB condition.  It loses speed neither too fast or too slow.  It can turn the corner.

-For the second and third shots, the ball was scuffed with a burgundy scotchbrite pad.  It loses speed too quickly (burning up), and therefore has no more energy to turn the corner as strong.

http://media.putfile.com/ArsenalAggressive

Axis rotation also plays a very big role in amount of hook.  Less rotation means more forward roll for a smoother reaction.  More rotation results in a more abrupt direction change at the breakpoint.
--------------------
Dino
Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
Track
Title: Re: MY Rule GP2 is not all that strong
Post by: charlest on September 29, 2005, 05:29:43 AM
Louie,

In drilling asymmetric balls, many more factors come into play.
1. 5" pin on a Track asymmetric put the core into an end-over-end "looK".
2. MB position plays a much more important role in asymmetric layouts than in symmetric ones. You di dnot indicate where it is.
3. Assuming your "thumbed" release has different specs (tilt, PAP, rotation, etc) than your thumbless one, is this ball drilled for that. You had said you had not been doing that. The GP2 is a touchy and expensive experiment with which to return to "normalcy".

All this will affect the ball's performance. I'd be willing to bet that more than one of these factors is off for you and your ball.

Tenpinspro and Excaliber, among others, can be of much more help.

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Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.
Title: Re: MY Rule GP2 is not all that strong
Post by: clintdaley on September 29, 2005, 07:21:11 AM
With the mass bias on your VAL, you are setting the ball up for a VERY early roll. Add to that a pin near leverage for you and factory surface, you have an oil monster. You may be surprised, but maybe the fresh shot at your house is not enough oil for the way you have it drilled. I have a GP2 drilled almost identical to the way yours is laid out and I have thrown it maybe a game so far, just not enough oil for it at my house, even on the fresh scratch league shot on Fridays I bowl on. Heck, I have little tilt and high speed, which makes for a ball that goes pretty straight, and the first GP2 I had with pin under ring, cg palm, mass bias left of thumb in my track, factory surface was more than enough ball on the fresh shot, in fact, I shot 813 the first night in league with the GP2. My point from the ramble, yours is probably just set so strong you need more oil.

Clint
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
TRACK ADVISORY PRO SHOP STAFF

http://www.trackbowling.com/

http://www.startabowlingrevolution.com/
Title: Re: MY Rule GP2 is not all that strong
Post by: louie on September 29, 2005, 09:14:05 AM
I'll try a light polish and see if it helps.
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Why does everyone laugh when I bowl?


louie
Title: Re: MY Rule GP2 is not all that strong
Post by: tenpinspro on September 29, 2005, 09:46:51 AM
Hey louie,

Can only echo a few of the reasonings for the lack of finish:

1) Too much surface to condition,  
quote:
Plenty of oil inside and almost no oil outside once you get through the heads.  


2) no tilt - promotes roll, low skid

3) mb on val - again promotes early roll

Just these 3 things alone are working negatively against you in helping creating the "proportionate" amounts of skid/hook/roll in 60 feet.  Polishing may help a little but it still won't corner like you think.  The Formula is skidding better naturally in comparison and can store it's energy for the backend.  Better yet, sounds like if you try a harder ball, you might even get a stronger reaction then the Formula.  Hope this helps explain some...
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl. - Amateur/Pro Shop Staff  
Vise Inserts Staff
www.Trackbowling.com
www.startabowlingrevolution.com

*El Presidente of the Track Revolution
Title: Re: MY Rule GP2 is not all that strong
Post by: louie on September 29, 2005, 10:27:15 AM
Thanks for all the help. I was looking for something for fresh oil. The Formula skates a bit too far to carry well when the oil is fresh. I just wanted a ball that would start earlier than the Formula. The GP2 does start earlier, but it really reacts a lot better when I get more on it. Being a low rev player, I thought a strong ball would work better. I have had very poor luck with Track since my Hex. That ball was a winner for me on second shift lanes. This is my third or fourth Track since then and they have all been major disapointments. I probably don't match up well with modern Track balls.

I've tried this drill with my old Angle Evolution Tour. I used that ball dull with great results. It was a high load particle with a fairly strong MB. I don't understand why this Rule has so much lope when the Angle made a distinct turn.
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Why does everyone laugh when I bowl?


louie
Title: Re: MY Rule GP2 is not all that strong
Post by: clintdaley on September 29, 2005, 10:29:13 AM
Which Angle Evolution? You also have to remember, the GP2 has a HIGH rg value, helping ti get through the heads easier than a ball with a lower RG. That could also cause some lope vs the Evolution, which if Iremember right, they all had low to medium rg ratings which means they would start up a little sooner.

Clint
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
TRACK ADVISORY PRO SHOP STAFF

http://www.trackbowling.com/

http://www.startabowlingrevolution.com/
Title: Re: MY Rule GP2 is not all that strong
Post by: tenpinspro on September 29, 2005, 10:43:30 AM
Hey louie,

The Angle Evol Tour was a pretty early rolling ball by nature (was on AMF staff with Del then) and most likely it was that reaction that helped offset your lower revs.  If that's the case, you should try our new Solution PP (purple sanded) with a leverage pin, I can guarantee you that this will give you the reaction you're looking for.  I was able to help Brickguy get a great reaction with my Havoc which also was an earlier and stronger rolling ball.  Based on some of your description of your game, I feel this would work fine.

 
quote:
It was a high load particle with a fairly strong MB.  

The mb strengths are different in comparison not to mention the cover strength as well.  If the Angle Tour had the same mb strength of the GP2, it would probably roll too early for you also.
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl. - Amateur/Pro Shop Staff  
Vise Inserts Staff
www.Trackbowling.com
www.startabowlingrevolution.com

*El Presidente of the Track Revolution
Title: Re: MY Rule GP2 is not all that strong
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on September 29, 2005, 10:15:47 PM
louie,

Are you still no thumbing it?

Try to alter the surface a bit bud, I think it would work much better.

-EX-
--------------------
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio

Track Intl.-Amateur/Pro Shop Staff

www.trackbowling.com

www.startabowlingrevolution.com


Tag Team Member #1
Title: Re: MY Rule GP2 is not all that strong
Post by: louie on September 30, 2005, 08:43:40 AM
I finally stopped no thumbing it. I'm back to being a cranker speed, stroker revs type of player.
--------------------

Why does everyone laugh when I bowl?


louie
Title: Re: MY Rule GP2 is not all that strong
Post by: stanski on October 01, 2005, 12:22:27 AM
quote:
Bowling balls:

Skid/Hook/Roll

With that said, the GP2 IS hooking, but it seems as though it may be losing too much energy up front (the ball loses speed too quickly) and therefore not having enough energy to turn the corner.

Here's a video of an Arsenal Aggressive:

-On the first shot, the ball is in OOB condition.  It loses speed neither too fast or too slow.  It can turn the corner.

-For the second and third shots, the ball was scuffed with a burgundy scotchbrite pad.  It loses speed too quickly (burning up), and therefore has no more energy to turn the corner as strong.

http://media.putfile.com/ArsenalAggressive

Axis rotation also plays a very big role in amount of hook.  Less rotation means more forward roll for a smoother reaction.  More rotation results in a more abrupt direction change at the breakpoint.
--------------------
Dino
Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
Track


All it looks like to me is that the ball was pushed out an extra board with less side roll and less tilt on the last two shots.
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stanski
Title: Re: MY Rule GP2 is not all that strong
Post by: icetink on October 01, 2005, 08:26:52 AM
quote:
quote:
Bowling balls:

Skid/Hook/Roll

With that said, the GP2 IS hooking, but it seems as though it may be losing too much energy up front (the ball loses speed too quickly) and therefore not having enough energy to turn the corner.

Here's a video of an Arsenal Aggressive:

-On the first shot, the ball is in OOB condition.  It loses speed neither too fast or too slow.  It can turn the corner.

-For the second and third shots, the ball was scuffed with a burgundy scotchbrite pad.  It loses speed too quickly (burning up), and therefore has no more energy to turn the corner as strong.

http://media.putfile.com/ArsenalAggressive

Axis rotation also plays a very big role in amount of hook.  Less rotation means more forward roll for a smoother reaction.  More rotation results in a more abrupt direction change at the breakpoint.
--------------------
Dino
Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
Track


All it looks like to me is that the ball was pushed out an extra board with less side roll and less tilt on the last two shots.
--------------------
stanski


It looks like the ball was pushed out an extra board and had less side roll because the ball was losing energy too quickly; it was trying to get into a heavy forward roll (because of the surface) but the lack of oil resulted in a burnout.  The ball kinda looks like it's skidding too far and one might say it's skating, but it is in fact burning up.

Surface plays a large roll in how aggressive the ball is in the fronts and mids, the core and drilling plays the roll of when the ball will hook and how much it will hook.  This is why coverstock and core combination is so important.
--------------------
Dino
Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
Track