Author Topic: Ok I give....508A versus the 811 SE the difference? (Read 9327 times)

LuckyLefty · « **on:** March 26, 2012, 11:24:04 PM »

Okay....I give!

Both with a variation of the legion core, both pearl!

Which one or both is supposed to be an improved version of the 607ASE?

Regards,

Luckylefty

It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Edited by LuckyLefty on 3/26/2012 at 9:39 PM

Nails · « **Reply #31 on:** March 29, 2012, 03:59:58 PM »

Not to jump on jls's bandwagon, but...

Don't forget - the small percentage of us who live for bowling web sites are not the norm. Even if all of us aren't the greatest bowlers, we still all hunger for much more knowledge than the typical league bowler.

Even though averages (for top bowlers) and honor scores continue at record pace, the "average" male bowler still shoots about 175 and women 165 (don't quote me on exact numbers). Probably 90% of the people who buy from the pro shops (that would exclude a great many people here who know you can steal a few bucks from them by buying on line) are John and Jane once a week bowlers. If they see a top pro switch from their strike ball to another ball to shoot a 10 pin, they will probably assume it's a low end or plastic ball. If Fagan used the 811A for strikes and spares, who knows what they would think, but since he only threw the 811A at 10 pins, it does send a message to the unaware. WE all know the difference, but does the great majority of bowlers? Those are the people that pro shop owners have to convince that the 811A is more than just for spares.

Telling it like it is.

HankScorpio · « **Reply #32 on:** March 29, 2012, 04:14:45 PM »

Lol, all that time you spent typing that up, and you never once stopped to think "hey, he never did say if he agrees with me or not." Instead, you immediately jumped to the insults like a child. Which brings me right back to: "Now I remember why I don't come here anymore."

For the record, I agree with your premise. The ratings are low enough that I doubt it has quite as big of an impact as you claim, but I do agree that it could scare away some customers here and there. I also agree with the fact that the pros can do whatever they want, its their livelihood and they should be throwing whatever they think would work best.

But please, go on with the insults. It really helps strengthen your points. Notice how nobody is siding with you? It isn't because everybody disagrees...

jls wrote on 3/29/2012 10:53 AM:
Please, such a typical response...

You are also clueless as to what this is all about...

So let me bore you and your friend Curt...

At 9:14 this morning, a customer called and asked if we have the Frantic...Yes we do...So at 10:01
said customer came in to buy said ball...Yes since we are a REAL pro shop we are open more
than 5-8 at nite...

While fitting the customer to said ball, the subject came up as why he wanted said ball...

Now you're going to get a kick out of this...He saw Pete Weber using said ball to WIN the
US OPEN...And Pete used it as a strike ball...Not a spare ball...

Now to date...NO ONE has come in to our shop and asked if we have the 811A spare ball that
Fagen used... I wonder why...

Now I'm sure you and Curt are totally confused...It's called marketing a product...

Storm and Ebonite pay pro's to wear those shirts that say Storm or Ebonite or Track or Hammer or
Columbia etc etc...and they also pay them to use their HP balls...And when said pro uses said
HP ball on TV, CONSUMERS SEE THAT, AND TEND TO BUY SAID BALLS...

Am I going to fast for you...

Consumers are not TURNED ON BY $200 HP balls being used as spare balls...

Now of course "laughing in your face" Fagen or Duke can use any of their strike balls and kill it
to pick up the 10 pin...Heck, even my wife can...

But IMO...The ball companies would PREFER that the pro's throw their HP balls at the pocket...

Kinda sorta like Weber did when winning the US OPEN...And IMO they would prefer their Pro's
to throw their plastic balls at the 10 pin, like Weber did...

It;s called marketing...

Now I laid out several examples of this, but your friend CURT ignores them or simply can't
address them...So he just replies with 3rd grade insults...

And then you come on with a typical geek response...

move along
HankScorpio wrote on 3/29/2012 10:00 AM:And now I remember why I stopped coming to this website.

jls

jls · « **Reply #33 on:** March 29, 2012, 04:30:56 PM »

Nails...excellent post...It's just a shame that a so called staffer can't see the trees in the forest...

He thinks because he is a Mr 220, and only Mr.220's buy HP balls...everyone should know the tricks of the

trade...But MOST BOWLERS who buy HP balls are not Mr.220's....

Correct me if I am wrong here....BUT I CAN'T RECALL seeing anyone from Storm/Roto using a HP ball as

a spare ball on NATIONAL TV... But customer's do indeed see and remember Mr. Weber using the Frantic

to win the US OPEN...AS A STRIKE BALL...

One day the ball company CEO's will start to realize that the bulk of HP sales is with average bowlers...

Who make up about 70-80% of bowlers...

The same average person that plays golf and buys a $399 Taylor or Callaway driver...Yet can't break 90...

And this person Curt said I am the reason for bowling's decline...

NO, It's Mr 220 POT STEELER'S THAT ARE THE REASON... They are the ones driving Mr.187, Mr 192, Mr 179 AWAY FROM THE GAME...

CAUSE THEY NOW REALIZE THEY ARE NOTHING MORE THEN "POT" DONATERS...

So why pay $25-$30 to bowl 3 games, $6-$8 to get in Hdcp. $10 to get in doubles...with little or no

chance of winning...And may the big guy in the Sky forgive if a average bowler with STICKS should win

a pot...The Mr. 220's usually go postal on them...

Which drives them from the game...

The truth sucks...Right Curt............

Nails wrote on 3/29/2012 1:59 PM:Not to jump on jls's bandwagon, but...

Don't forget - the small percentage of us who live for bowling web sites are not the norm. Even if all of us aren't the greatest bowlers, we still all hunger for much more knowledge than the typical league bowler.

Even though averages (for top bowlers) and honor scores continue at record pace, the "average" male bowler still shoots about 175 and women 165 (don't quote me on exact numbers). Probably 90% of the people who buy from the pro shops (that would exclude a great many people here who know you can steal a few bucks from them by buying on line) are John and Jane once a week bowlers. If they see a top pro switch from their strike ball to another ball to shoot a 10 pin, they will probably assume it's a low end or plastic ball. If Fagan used the 811A for strikes and spares, who knows what they would think, but since he only threw the 811A at 10 pins, it does send a message to the unaware. WE all know the difference, but does the great majority of bowlers? Those are the people that pro shop owners have to convince that the 811A is more than just for spares.

EXACTLY

Telling it like it is.

jls

jls · « **Reply #34 on:** March 29, 2012, 04:40:39 PM »

I guess you missed the post from Nails or lucky lefty or CC...They all seemed to see my point...

Now as for the insults...I do believe your boy willie started with them..."laughing in your Face"

Oh that's right....READING IS A SKILL, YOU LACK...

Now why don't you go back and read all the post...And try to comprehend what you read...

I know it will be hard for you...

And if you are so unhappy with this site...Why don't you leave...Cause it's clear you can't address the topic...

All you do is come on and pretend your Ragnor with, "now I know why I don't come on this site"

If you think your so high and mighty, go somewhere else...

Bottom line.... Sales of some HP balls are HURTING...And it does not help SALES when a consumer

sees a HP ball being used as a 10 pin ball...

You would think a Track staffer would be able to understand MARKETING...

now

are we clear

HankScorpio wrote on 3/29/2012 2:14 PM:Lol, all that time you spent typing that up, and you never once stopped to think "hey, he never did say if he agrees with me or not." Instead, you immediately jumped to the insults like a child. Which brings me right back to: "Now I remember why I don't come here anymore."

For the record, I agree with your premise. The ratings are low enough that I doubt it has quite as big of an impact as you claim, but I do agree that it could scare away some customers here and there. I also agree with the fact that the pros can do whatever they want, its their livelihood and they should be throwing whatever they think would work best.

But please, go on with the insults. It really helps strengthen your points. Notice how nobody is siding with you? It isn't because everybody disagrees...

jls wrote on 3/29/2012 10:53 AM:
Please, such a typical response...

You are also clueless as to what this is all about...

So let me bore you and your friend Curt...

At 9:14 this morning, a customer called and asked if we have the Frantic...Yes we do...So at 10:01
said customer came in to buy said ball...Yes since we are a REAL pro shop we are open more
than 5-8 at nite...

While fitting the customer to said ball, the subject came up as why he wanted said ball...

Now you're going to get a kick out of this...He saw Pete Weber using said ball to WIN the
US OPEN...And Pete used it as a strike ball...Not a spare ball...

Now to date...NO ONE has come in to our shop and asked if we have the 811A spare ball that
Fagen used... I wonder why...

Now I'm sure you and Curt are totally confused...It's called marketing a product...

Storm and Ebonite pay pro's to wear those shirts that say Storm or Ebonite or Track or Hammer or
Columbia etc etc...and they also pay them to use their HP balls...And when said pro uses said
HP ball on TV, CONSUMERS SEE THAT, AND TEND TO BUY SAID BALLS...

Am I going to fast for you...

Consumers are not TURNED ON BY $200 HP balls being used as spare balls...

Now of course "laughing in your face" Fagen or Duke can use any of their strike balls and kill it
to pick up the 10 pin...Heck, even my wife can...

But IMO...The ball companies would PREFER that the pro's throw their HP balls at the pocket...

Kinda sorta like Weber did when winning the US OPEN...And IMO they would prefer their Pro's
to throw their plastic balls at the 10 pin, like Weber did...

It;s called marketing...

Now I laid out several examples of this, but your friend CURT ignores them or simply can't
address them...So he just replies with 3rd grade insults...

And then you come on with a typical geek response...

move along
HankScorpio wrote on 3/29/2012 10:00 AM:And now I remember why I stopped coming to this website.

jls

jls

HankScorpio · « **Reply #35 on:** March 29, 2012, 05:46:36 PM »

Why exactly is Curt my boy? You act as if I'm defending Track. I've never owned a Track ball, so that would be an odd thing for me to do. You do seem to like to assume things though, so its not out of character.

It is hilarious to see you telling everyone that they can't read. Have you seen how you write? Still, it isn't NEARLY as hilarious as YOU calling someone else high and mighty.

As far as me going somewhere else, you don't have to twist my arm. I'll make you a deal. I'll leave as long as you stay here. Are we clear?

jls wrote on 3/29/2012 2:40 PM:I guess you missed the post from Nails or lucky lefty or CC...They all seemed to see my point...

Now as for the insults...I do believe your boy willie started with them..."laughing in your Face"

Oh that's right....READING IS A SKILL, YOU LACK...

Now why don't you go back and read all the post...And try to comprehend what you read...

I know it will be hard for you...

And if you are so unhappy with this site...Why don't you leave...Cause it's clear you can't address the topic...

All you do is come on and pretend your Ragnor with, "now I know why I don't come on this site"

If you think your so high and mighty, go somewhere else...

Bottom line.... Sales of some HP balls are HURTING...And it does not help SALES when a consumer
sees a HP ball being used as a 10 pin ball...

You would think a Track staffer would be able to understand MARKETING...

now

are we clear

HankScorpio wrote on 3/29/2012 2:14 PM:Lol, all that time you spent typing that up, and you never once stopped to think "hey, he never did say if he agrees with me or not." Instead, you immediately jumped to the insults like a child. Which brings me right back to: "Now I remember why I don't come here anymore."

For the record, I agree with your premise. The ratings are low enough that I doubt it has quite as big of an impact as you claim, but I do agree that it could scare away some customers here and there. I also agree with the fact that the pros can do whatever they want, its their livelihood and they should be throwing whatever they think would work best.

But please, go on with the insults. It really helps strengthen your points. Notice how nobody is siding with you? It isn't because everybody disagrees...

jls wrote on 3/29/2012 10:53 AM:
Please, such a typical response...

You are also clueless as to what this is all about...

So let me bore you and your friend Curt...

At 9:14 this morning, a customer called and asked if we have the Frantic...Yes we do...So at 10:01
said customer came in to buy said ball...Yes since we are a REAL pro shop we are open more
than 5-8 at nite...

While fitting the customer to said ball, the subject came up as why he wanted said ball...

Now you're going to get a kick out of this...He saw Pete Weber using said ball to WIN the
US OPEN...And Pete used it as a strike ball...Not a spare ball...

Now to date...NO ONE has come in to our shop and asked if we have the 811A spare ball that
Fagen used... I wonder why...

Now I'm sure you and Curt are totally confused...It's called marketing a product...

Storm and Ebonite pay pro's to wear those shirts that say Storm or Ebonite or Track or Hammer or
Columbia etc etc...and they also pay them to use their HP balls...And when said pro uses said
HP ball on TV, CONSUMERS SEE THAT, AND TEND TO BUY SAID BALLS...

Am I going to fast for you...

Consumers are not TURNED ON BY $200 HP balls being used as spare balls...

Now of course "laughing in your face" Fagen or Duke can use any of their strike balls and kill it
to pick up the 10 pin...Heck, even my wife can...

But IMO...The ball companies would PREFER that the pro's throw their HP balls at the pocket...

Kinda sorta like Weber did when winning the US OPEN...And IMO they would prefer their Pro's
to throw their plastic balls at the 10 pin, like Weber did...

It;s called marketing...

Now I laid out several examples of this, but your friend CURT ignores them or simply can't
address them...So he just replies with 3rd grade insults...

And then you come on with a typical geek response...

move along
HankScorpio wrote on 3/29/2012 10:00 AM:And now I remember why I stopped coming to this website.

jls

jls

Juggernaut · « **Reply #36 on:** March 29, 2012, 09:15:00 PM »

Let me point out a few facts that may help, or at least make this thing understandable.

#1. STAFFERS ARE USUALLY ABOVE AVERAGE IN BOTH ABILITY AND KNOWLEDGE OF THE EQUIPMENT.

#2. PROSHOP GUYS SHOULD BE ABOVE THE NORM IN KNOWLEDGE OF THE EQUIPMENT, AND MANY ARE.

and, finally,

#3 THE LARGE PART OF CONSUMERS ARE "STUPID" AS FAR AS EQUIPMENT IS CONCERNED, AND ONLY KNOW EITHER WHAT THEY SEE, OR WHAT THEY'RE TOLD.

It doesn't matter HOW good a ball might be, if "STUPID" people/consumers see it being thrown as a "SPARE" ball, they are inherently going to figure that is what it is good for. If everyone else is throwing plastic, "STUPID" consumers are left with the impression that the ball will be comparable to that.

While I am no official on the subject, I believe much of the problem has been caused by the industry itsself, by designating some balls as "strike" balls, and some balls as "spare" balls, which gave "STUPID" consumers the impression that those were the only things you could use those particular balls for.

This is likely the reason many of the younger bowlers here were amazed that I actually shot 749 with my plastic ball last month. Even after I had done that, I had one of them tell me "Just imagine what you would've shot if you had used a "real" ball". All I could do was just shake my head and walk away....................

Curt_Dupre · « **Reply #37 on:** March 30, 2012, 01:12:43 AM »

JLS did you watch bowling this past weekend? I believe Norm was throwing his strike ball as a spare ball. Isn't he a Storm/Roto staffer? Once again it doesn't matter what the hell they throw at spares, as long as they spare. You completely missed my point, when I said it is a proshop's job to let the customer understand bowling equipment. I am not a 220 bowler. But you are just way too smart for me. I am going to leave with a few remarks for you JLS. If you didn't have anything bad to say about the 811A, then why everytime someone asks a question about the ball you bring up Fagan throwing it as a spare ball? This is the second thread you have done this by the way. Have you even thrown the 811A?....probably not. So how in the hell do you know how the ball rolls. Not only do I have 4 of them, I have drilled about 20-25 for my customers with a lot of good feedback from them about the ball. I would really love to know your name and what proshop you work for. Sorry for all of the thread hijacking. Once again if anyone needs any help with any Track ball, or any of the other Ebonite brands feel free to ask me.

Trackbowling.com
Mccorveysproshop.com
Track Regional Staff

jls · « **Reply #38 on:** March 30, 2012, 11:45:56 AM »

Jag, nice post...

Juggernaut wrote on 3/29/2012 7:15 PM:Let me point out a few facts that may help, or at least make this thing understandable.

#1. STAFFERS ARE USUALLY ABOVE AVERAGE IN BOTH ABILITY AND KNOWLEDGE OF THE EQUIPMENT.

#2. PROSHOP GUYS SHOULD BE ABOVE THE NORM IN KNOWLEDGE OF THE EQUIPMENT, AND MANY ARE.

and, finally,

#3 THE LARGE PART OF CONSUMERS ARE "STUPID" AS FAR AS EQUIPMENT IS CONCERNED, AND ONLY KNOW EITHER WHAT THEY SEE, OR WHAT THEY'RE TOLD.

They rely way too much on the hype they read from the ball companies and Staffers...

It doesn't matter HOW good a ball might be, if "STUPID" people/consumers see it being thrown as a "SPARE" ball, they are inherently going to figure that is what it is good for. If everyone else is throwing plastic, "STUPID" consumers are left with the impression that the ball will be comparable to that.
Exactly...However I would not refer to them as stupid...They simply lack the skills of a touring pro..

This is likely the reason many of the younger bowlers here were amazed that I actually shot 749 with my plastic ball last month. Even after I had done that, I had one of them tell me "Just imagine what you would've shot if you had used a "real" ball". All I could do was just shake my head and walk away....................

While I am no official on the subject, I believe much of the problem has been caused by the industry itsself, by designating some balls as "strike" balls, and some balls as "spare" balls, which gave "STUPID" consumers the impression that those were the only things you could use those particular balls for.

jls

jls · « **Reply #39 on:** March 30, 2012, 11:50:49 AM »

The point you will never understand is...Marketing...

Try reading Jag's post...He clearly UNDERSTANDS MARKETING...

Now Curt, you are a waste of my time...

I'm trying to help the sales of the 811A...By pointing out that using said ball as a spare ball sends

the wrong message to consumers...

Not everyone is a Staffer or a pro or a Mr 220 ...

If ball companies had to rely on them for sales...They would all be out of business...For they

make up a small percentage of people buying HP balls....

Maybe someday you will learn about marketing...

Until then, you are nothing but a bias staffer...

have a nice day

Curt_Dupre wrote on 3/29/2012 11:12 PM:JLS did you watch bowling this past weekend? I believe Norm was throwing his strike ball as a spare ball. Isn't he a Storm/Roto staffer? Once again it doesn't matter what the hell they throw at spares, as long as they spare. You completely missed my point, when I said it is a proshop's job to let the customer understand bowling equipment. I am not a 220 bowler. But you are just way too smart for me. I am going to leave with a few remarks for you JLS. If you didn't have anything bad to say about the 811A, then why everytime someone asks a question about the ball you bring up Fagan throwing it as a spare ball? This is the second thread you have done this by the way. Have you even thrown the 811A?....probably not. So how in the hell do you know how the ball rolls. Not only do I have 4 of them, I have drilled about 20-25 for my customers with a lot of good feedback from them about the ball. I would really love to know your name and what proshop you work for. Sorry for all of the thread hijacking. Once again if anyone needs any help with any Track ball, or any of the other Ebonite brands feel free to ask me.

Trackbowling.com
Mccorveysproshop.com
Track Regional Staff

jls

jls · « **Reply #40 on:** March 30, 2012, 12:20:57 PM »

Here is another prime example of someone who has zero reading skills...I said over and over,

"even my wife can use her strike ball to pick up the 10 pin" So it's really not a big deal...Heck

even my 9 year old granddaughter can...

So your rude crude remark..."know nothings" only goes to show how ignorant you are...

You like willie have NO MARKETING SKILLS...I seriously doubt Ebonite thinks that the

majority of bowlers who buy their products are "know nothings" just because they average

under 200...

Most golfers can break 90, actually a 100...YET THEY MARCH INTO STORES LIKE GOLF

GALAXY, GOLFSMITH, DICK'S AND BUY DRIVERS SELLING FOR $299-$399...

So Al, it's not just skilled bowlers like you who buy HP balls...Their are a zillion "know nothings" that

march into pro shops and buy said balls...

And that AL helps keep Ebonite in business...

The point you missed Mr high and Mighty spare shooter, is the point Mr Jag made...

People get the wrong impression when the HYPE says HOOK, ANGULAR, ETC...and they see

said hyped up ball being used a 10 pin ball...

They don't understand the skill level of touring pros...

JUST LIKE YOU AND WILLIE DON'T UNDERSTAND "MARKETING"

Now more than likely, you are at work pounding a keyboard on COMPANY TIME...And you love

to come on these sites and act like JOE PRO BOWLER...

And then people wonder why so many companies outsource their work overseas...

Sales of the 811A were good in Dec...have slipped since...and IMO, seeing it used as a 10 pin

ball will not help bring back sales...

Curt love to throw up the fact that Duke may not always use plastic...

Wow, that's what....doing the math...2 bowlers...When I watch the telecast I see the MAJORITY

of the pros using plastic....

And my customers do seem to remember Weber using his Frantic as a strike ball to win the US OPEN...

But I think I missed where Fagan won using the 811A as a 10 pin ball...

AlBundy33 wrote on 3/29/2012 11:27 AM:All I'm going say is that I had no trouble throwing my 716T at the very few 10-pins that I left the other night.......JLS I don't see what the big deal is. Unless your entire customer base consist of "know nothings" when it comes to bowling.

"Pretty women make us buy beer, ugly women make us drink beer"

jls

Juggernaut · « **Reply #41 on:** March 30, 2012, 02:23:09 PM »

THIS POST IS ONLY TO REFLECT MY OWN THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS ON THE SUBJECT:

Things like this are the very reason I think the PBA HAD to make the Mark Roth PLASTIC ball tournament go away. When you have top professionals throwing plastic "SPARE" balls, and averaaging in the 230's/240's and more, what impression do you think that gave the "STUPID" consumers?

Think it might've shown millions of amatuer bowlers that you don't NEED all those super high performance balls to score well with?

Think that might RUIN the manufacturers marketing plans? Think sales of all these "CRUTCH" balls might've suffered? Think that might mean people would begin to wake up and smell the coffee of truth?

Couldn't let THAT happen, now could they?

And THAT, I believe, is why the plastic ball tournament HAD to die, because the manufacturers DEMANDED it, and the PBA complied.

Like I said, "STUPID" consumers only know what they hear, or SEE, and they WILL NOT be allowed to see this happen again.

Dave-bestbowlingproshops · « **Reply #42 on:** March 30, 2012, 07:23:57 PM »

Wow....this is an interesting post.

Well first off JLS I understand what you mean about the 811A. I discussed this with our brand manager and expressed my concerns with it. I know they can throw whatever they want at spares and knock'em down 99.9999999% of the time. But the few...and boy do I mean few...of my customers that watch the PBA are misled. "Does it really go that straight?" is what I've been asked. But at my shop there's a huge amount of trust from my customers and I'm nothing but honest. I tell them its angular for MOST but is extremely clean through the fronts. Now for me the 811A has sold extremely well...just my location alone sold close to 30 BEFORE it was released. Every single one was happy with it and got what they were looking for. It was smoother for some, very flippy for others.

Now I will admit that I'm not a fan of the finish they come with so 3/4 of them were adjusted. It's super clean down the lane and it does have a good amount of angle. I'm also going to agree with Curt...you have in several of you're posts you stated that the 811A is not the angular piece it claims to be and I will somewhat disagree. I've noticed much more change of direction with it depending on the players tilt. I'm not trying to educate you just telling you what I see. I agree the way the ball was presented on tv wasn't good imo either....I feel as a staffer we should do our best to represent what the ball is intended to do. If it doesn't it will fade away as many have but I don't see why Mr Fagan can't just throw a 100P to show it off.

www.bestbowlingproshops.com
Track Staff
Turbo Staff

jls · « **Reply #43 on:** March 31, 2012, 10:44:02 AM »

Dave, thank you for your post...I will assume unlike Curt, you were around for the "extremely angular"

715A, followed by the 718A...And lets not forget about the 920A...

Now I don't recall knocking the performance of the 811A...I do feel that when compared to other

HP balls on the market, the 811A is not as angular...Doesn't mean that it's not the most angular in

Track's line...

I am glad you have seen first hand how negative the consumer can be when seeing said ball being

used as a 10 pin ball...And I'm glad that you feel that this does nothing to help with the image

or sales of said ball...

It CLEARLY shows you understand the importance of marketing...

Curt claims he wasn't around for the famous 715A.."extremely angular"...But WE were and saw

first hand what the consumer felt about said balls...Even though just about all reviews by

staffer's were great.....

Now I have said over and over again, that I feel the 811A is a good piece of equipment when

USED ON THE RIGHT CONDITION...

However IMO I would stop short of calling it extremely angular... Strong hard arc maybe...

Thank you again for your post...

Dave-bestbowlingproshops wrote on 3/30/2012 5:23 PM:Wow....this is an interesting post.

Well first off JLS I understand what you mean about the 811A. I discussed this with our brand manager and expressed my concerns with it. I know they can throw whatever they want at spares and knock'em down 99.9999999% of the time. But the few...and boy do I mean few...of my customers that watch the PBA are misled. "Does it really go that straight?" is what I've been asked. But at my shop there's a huge amount of trust from my customers and I'm nothing but honest. I tell them its angular for MOST but is extremely clean through the fronts. Now for me the 811A has sold extremely well...just my location alone sold close to 30 BEFORE it was released. Every single one was happy with it and got what they were looking for. It was smoother for some, very flippy for others.
Now I will admit that I'm not a fan of the finish they come with so 3/4 of them were adjusted. It's super clean down the lane and it does have a good amount of angle. I'm also going to agree with Curt...you have in several of you're posts you stated that the 811A is not the angular piece it claims to be and I will somewhat disagree. I've noticed much more change of direction with it depending on the players tilt. I'm not trying to educate you just telling you what I see. I agree the way the ball was presented on tv wasn't good imo either....I feel as a staffer we should do our best to represent what the ball is intended to do. If it doesn't it will fade away as many have but I don't see why Mr Fagan can't just throw a 100P to show it off.

www.bestbowlingproshops.com
Track Staff
Turbo Staff

jls

DeadWood Pro Shop · « **Reply #44 on:** April 01, 2012, 04:47:15 AM »

Did anyone actually answer lucky lefty's original question yet? Just in case, lefty, this is what I've noticed from the many Track balls I've drilled lately.

The 508a is indeed a modified version of the legion core in the 607a se. Track didn't realize that the core would change the reaction of this ball as much as it did. For higher rev guys, the 508 seems to have more pickup in the mid lane. And the skid flip nature of the 505a cover makes that ball turn the corner and keeps on going. I love this ball bc I believe that for a house shot it and the elevate are the best bang for your buck.

The 811a se on the other hand is one of the most unique balls on the market. It has a lower intermediate differential than the 718a that came before it. I can't say for sure, but I believe that the 811 was intended to replace the 718 ands the angular hook monster this year. The symmetric nature of the core that was modified to become asymmetrical is ULTRA clean through the front part of the lane and for higher rev guys the ball turns sideways when it is good and ready. For lower rev guys the ball tends to have a smoother roll to the pocket.

Both of these balls are great, and I have been averaging 228 using these two balls in tandem since their release. The consensus from my customers is that the 508 has more of a typical roll, and has more mid lane. Where on the other side, the 811 is so clean through the heads that when the line you are playing is burning up in the heads, you can move and get the 811 right (or for lefties- left) and the ball will turn and hit with more energy from a deeper line. This includes a lefty in my surveying of the Track line up.

I hope this helps, I'm not a staff member or anything, but I do feel that Track is one of the most under rated Brands in my area and carry the best when I'm rolling one of them. If you'd like to see a video of the 508a check out our shop Facebook page for a link to the video.

DeadWood Pro Shop

9307 Boone Road

Houston, TX 77099

http://www.facebook.com/DeadWoodproshop

DeadWood Pro Shop · « **Reply #45 on:** April 01, 2012, 04:49:04 AM »

Ps. The legion 2 turbo core is completely unique from the legion core.

DeadWood Pro Shop

9307 Boone Road

Houston, TX 77099

http://www.facebook.com/DeadWoodproshop