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Equipment Boards => Track => Topic started by: ten on the deck on March 14, 2005, 10:50:54 AM

Title: Pap symmetrical vs asymmetrical balls
Post by: ten on the deck on March 14, 2005, 10:50:54 AM

First time for posting although been reading Track forum for a long time.
Question: Will your pap differ from a symmetrical ball to an asymmetrical ball?  Reason is I have a Lane #1 buzzsaw where pin is on pap.  However I have a Rule (which is fantastic) and my pap has seemed to migrate quite a bit closer to my grip.  In other words track seems much lower than on the Lane #1 ball.  I have just bought an Arsenal Agressive and before I have it drilled I want to know which should be the benchmark for my pap.
thanks to all Track experts.
T.O.T.D.

Title: Re: Pap symmetrical vs asymmetrical balls
Post by: cooksey on March 14, 2005, 07:05:29 PM

Well if I remember correctly and from my experience the morpheous cores have a tendency to drop you track at least they did mine. The morpheous balls where one of the few I could drill pin under and not hit my thumb hole. Just my thoughts is that it might change your pap slightly but I am sure some of the experts will chime in.

cooksey
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" Focus the next shot is critical"

AIM:johncooksey24

Title: Re: Pap symmetrical vs asymmetrical balls
Post by: shelley on March 14, 2005, 07:34:58 PM

Couldn't slight changes in pitch affect your track?  If the balls are not drilled quite the same way, or if the pitches are slightly different, it may be sufficient to change your track.

SH

Title: Re: Pap symmetrical vs asymmetrical balls
Post by: ten on the deck on March 14, 2005, 07:46:38 PM

Thanks to those who replied.  I am going to check and measure exactly what the difference is between the 2 different balls.  I am pretty confident that my release is not changing that much between the two balls as both have been drilled by the same guy who has been drilling for me for the last 2 or 3 years.  I will update profile once this is determined.
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Ten on the Deck.......
"Never confuse activity with accomplishment"
Gene Stallings

Edited on 3/14/2005 8:42 PM

Title: Re: Pap symmetrical vs asymmetrical balls
Post by: Walking E on March 14, 2005, 07:49:15 PM

Are we talking PAP (positive axis point) or PSA (preferred spin axis) here?

PAP is dictated by your release.

PSA is dictated by the core shape/mass bias.

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Official Member of the BrunsTrackColumStormHammEbonBuzzAMF Nation!

Title: Re: Pap symmetrical vs asymmetrical balls
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on March 14, 2005, 09:17:02 PM

ten on the deck,

It is well known that the morpheous core has been known to lower a bowler's track----some up to 2 inches lower than with symmetrical equipment. That is the reason that most bowlers with a high track can go below the finger line and not have to worry about hitting a finger hole or thumb hole.

The pin on your PAP ball is not really a ball to judge your PAP on. If you have another ball try throwing it and getting your PAP location and drill the Arsenal Aggressive based on that.

Goodluck,
-EX-
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C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio

Track Intl.-Amateur/Pro Shop Staff

Title: Re: Pap symmetrical vs asymmetrical balls
Post by: ten on the deck on March 15, 2005, 06:02:09 AM

Thanks Ex,and all the others for your input.  I have a dull cover Freak that should be pretty easy to pick up the track rings to measure as a guide for the "Agressive". Once I get that info I will post later to ask opinions for layout suggestions on the Angular Agressive.
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Ten on the Deck.......
"Never confuse activity with accomplishment"
Gene Stallings

Title: Re: Pap symmetrical vs asymmetrical balls
Post by: tenpinspro on March 16, 2005, 02:06:30 AM

Hey totd,

As Ex stated, the morpheus cores do help flare downward quicker so long as it is drilled that way (with the correct placement of the mass bias).  If you want to find your pap, it is recommended to throw a low flaring ball (plastic/urethane).

 RotoDave:

quote:

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I know this isnt within my jurisdiction, but PAP shouldnt have anything to do with the core, or ball layout .. its all to do with release.

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Dave, normally I'd agree with you, logically I agree with you...but after looking at all my balls and seeing customers track differently on their higher flaring balls/high flare patterns, I'd have to say not necessarily.  Conceptually it's hard to believe (this means the ball's turning in the air) but I see it consistently on myself when throwing a higher flaring ball or high flare drill, my first track is significantly lower.  Not sure if any this is documented yet or it could be just one of those agree to disagree subjects.  I do know a few of the other guys here on BR have seen the same happen to their equipment as well.  Just thought I'd share....
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Rick Leong
Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl. - Amateur/Pro Shop Staff  
Vise Inserts Staff

Title: Re: Pap symmetrical vs asymmetrical balls
Post by: Ishmael on March 16, 2005, 06:51:37 AM

The PAP is not acually changing.  You're simply getting an incorrect measurement on high flaring balls because they begin flaring before you get the first complete oil ring on the ball.  Always measure your PAP with a low flaring ball.