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Author Topic: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal  (Read 7182 times)

Rockbowler

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Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal
« on: March 07, 2004, 11:38:37 PM »
This is a question to those who now own either or both balls. I got my Phoenom Unleashed with the Pin/CG/MB aligned while my Animal has the pin and MB aligned but the CG is at 45 degrees to the pin and MB. Is this a defect? I am still playing with my Animal so the jury is still out but I love my Unleashed. Could it be a factory defect on the Animal? Please help. Thanks!
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tenpinspro

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Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2004, 11:46:01 AM »
Hey Rock,

Of course, try what Bill recommended but I still feel like some of the others that this pattern is not strong enough to help pull you up in heavy oil.  I have about the same revs you do and I kicked my mb out past val and took it down to 1000 just to ensure it would roll up and it responds nicely.  If Bill's suggestion still isn't enough, try plugging and redrilling it.  You should see a much stronger reaction, thanks.
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Rockbowler

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Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2004, 12:03:26 PM »
Rick,

My point was Track was advertising the Animal to be stronger than the Unleashed and so I drilled the Animal 1/2" longer Pin and MB. But I am getting inconsistent results. In heavy oil, my Unleashed has a strong midlane roll and arcs to the pocket. In league, if there is still head oil, I can play a little swing out and the Unleashed works. So I have a great ball in the Unleashed. My Animal in either condition is inconsistent. I know some people like plugging and re-drilling balls but I have had poor results with it. For me, the plugged ball was not the same, hit-wise etc. I try to avoid this so I try to research diligently and tell my pro-shop the layout and my expectations. I have not had many failed expectation with Track balls but this one. I am hopeful that Bill's suggestion will work but if it does not, then all I can conclude is I got a very rare Track blem. Thanks!
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Ishmael

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Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2004, 12:20:10 PM »
quote:
then all I can conclude is I got a very rare Track blem.


Rock, you need to get this idea out of your head.  The ball is not a blem (defective as you called it) because of the cg and mb being off line.  Drilled properly, the ball will perform just as well as a ball with the cg and mb in line.  The reason that these balls are often sold as blems is because they are not as driller friendly.  Sometimes your layout options can be limited just like they can be with pin in or very long pin out balls.  I think what you have here is a bad match up of bowler, ball, and drill pattern.

Also, plugged balls will perform equally as well as first drilled balls.  If the weighthole experiment doesn't work out, don't be afraid to plug it.
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tenpinspro

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Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2004, 12:37:59 PM »
Hey Rock,

Sorry to hear about the replugging deal for you, strange.  Most balls I've plugged once or twice (and I've plugged a lot) have been fine.  Just curious, why would you want to take a stronger ball and drill it weaker?  That would be backing down the stronger ball to what the original ball is in comparison, wouldn't it?  Then you'd end up with 2 balls that did almost the same thing?  Or did you want just a little more....just curious.
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Rockbowler

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Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2004, 12:44:49 PM »
Rick,

I want versatile balls and I do not want to max out the drill as I have relatively low to medium speed. I have a friend who has his Unleashed with the pin under CG and MB near the VAL and he sends the ball from 17 to 5 and the ball gets into third gear and comes back hard to the pocket. This is not the reaction that I want and that is why I drilled the balls the way I did. I would like versatility and power. I have a true oil balls in the Scorcher and Super Carbide Bomb and I wanted the Animal and Unleashed to give me the versatility in medium to heavy oil and wet/dry conditions in league. Hope this answers your question. Thanks!
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C-G ProShop-Carl

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Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2004, 01:41:35 PM »
ROCK..

The weighthole may help, but the placement of the MB is much more crucial to the reaction of these balls than any other aspect. Pin placement is important, but if the MB is placed in an area that gets too much length, then the ball will simply go too long and even become "squirty" at times.

What I find in the first Animal I drilled, PIN under ring finger and MB on my VAL (box surface), is that the ball is a controll ball for me. It rolls up early enough in oil (more than my unleashed with the identical drill pattern) and on dry it still gets enough length that I can use it on mediums. If you want more controll, and without looking back at all of the previos posts, try sanding the ball to 800 grit AGAINST your track, this will make the ball much less squirty.

Placing the pin 5 inches from PAP does not really make the Animal even out with the Unleashed. Placing the pin there is cutting down flare potential thus the Unleashed is going to flare a little bit more which could cause it to hook more. If the MB on the Unleashed is closer towards your VAL then it is definately going to be slightly stronger.

On the blem thing, it is definately not a blem. I would totally get that out of my head if I were you. The purpose of factory spinning the ball is to mark the MB exactly.

If the surface adjustment does not work, I would say to try to sell the ball before you get alot of games on it and get another one and drill it accordingly. MB placed close to the thumb or left of the thumb is going to give you length, and usually require drier backends to get the strong reaction. Controll and versatility are usually properties of balls that roll well in the midlane and have an even backend reaction.

Goodluck

--EX--
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Carl Hurd

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Rockbowler

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Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2004, 02:13:39 PM »
quote:
ROCK..


On the blem thing, it is definately not a blem. I would totally get that out of my head if I were you. The purpose of factory spinning the ball is to mark the MB exactly.

If the surface adjustment does not work, I would say to try to sell the ball before you get alot of games on it and get another one and drill it accordingly.  

--EX--


It seems like Excaliber and Tenpinspro who both own a proshop want me to forget about the blem thing. I am sorry. All of my Track MB balls have aligned PIN/CG/MB and the only ball that comes with one misalinged by 1 3/4 inches is my Animal. King of the MIll says that the guideline is 1 1/2" for weeding out blems. If it looks like a blem and is inconsistent like a blem, then it is a blem. As I said, I am the one getting the inconsistent results. It is my experience. I am wondering how people can make conclusions out of my experience. Is it not possible that the awesome Quality Control of Track may have missed one ball? I mean perfection is an ideal but nobody is. Also, I am not buying another Animal. I buy the same  ball if I like the reaction in the first place and wants another application of the ball or just to reserve one for me just in case the ball is discontinued. Thanks for all your replies.  


Edited on 3/9/2004 3:17 PM
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Ishmael

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Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2004, 04:10:37 PM »
Rockbowler says:
quote:
King of the MIll says that the guideline is 1 1/2" for weeding out blems. If it looks like a blem and is inconsistent like a blem, then it is a blem.


King of the Mill says:
 
quote:
it is not a defective ball. track product, if caught in the assembly process, with cg's more than 1 1/2" off the line between the pin and mass bias will be pulled as a blem, but roll just as well as other product.
 


"not a defective ball" and "roll just as well as other product"!!!
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Rockbowler

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Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2004, 04:23:30 PM »
If we follow this logic, we should all buy blems as "they roll as well as other products" and we can save money as blems are usually cheaper than first-rate balls.
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BackToBasics

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Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2004, 06:11:01 PM »
Before determining if it's a blem by reading an Internet forum, have it spun a determinator and see if the MB is marked correctly.  I have a Phenom that is offline by 2.5-3" and it rolls beautifully.  It has the MB on my VAL with the CG .5" LEFT of the centerline!  I've had it since August of last year and anyone that knows me knows that's a record  The ball is conistent, versatile and hits well.  I'ved used it with surfaces from 800 grit to high polish.  So obviously just because the CG was not inline didn't make it a blem.  It rolls exactly as I expected given the pin and MB marking.  You very well could have a defect (not blem) and if you do, Track will rectify it.
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Rockbowler

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Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2004, 11:44:45 PM »
quote:
Rock,

True that most of these balls have a CG within 1 1/2 inches off a line drawn between the PIN and Mb. But, I have seen many high performance balls from ALL manufacturers that have been much farther out than that. Personally if I am looking for a ball to rev up quick I'll look for one that the CG is further out to the left than 1 1/2 inches. This will allow me to put the Mb either on or past my VAL and reduce the size of or eliminate the need to use a weight hole. If I choose to drill up an arc type of ball I look for a CG shifted out to the right. I really don't think you can label your Animal a blem because it's shifted a little further.

Precision


If you are saying that you have seen a lot of high performance balls from ALL manufacturers that are misalinged further, then that is your experience. My experience is the opposite. I have not seen any like this. I have shared that all my Track balls with MB are aligned. I also have balls from Ebonite, Storm and Morich with MBs and I have not seem any misaligned CGs. Also, I go back to my question, "Is it not possible that the "awesome" Quality Control of Track missed one ball?" Thanks!
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Rockbowler

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Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2004, 12:20:16 AM »
quote:


I echo king of the mill when I say that a ball with a mass bias out of line rolls the same (cg doesn't really matter when you've got a MB).  It could be, like mentioned by others, that you've come across a ball, drilling, and pattern matchup that just doesn't work well for your style.
--------------------


OK. I agree that this is a possibility but the other possibility is I have a blem or defective ball. Why is it that everybody seems to be on the side of one and not the other? Everyone likes to get on the good side of Track?
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Rockbowler

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Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2004, 12:25:58 AM »
quote:
You very well could have a defect (not blem) and if you do, Track will rectify it.


Sorry, not everyone. Anthony considers that possibility. Thanks!
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C-G ProShop-Carl

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Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2004, 12:27:28 AM »
Both of the Animals that I own personally have the Cg kicked way out from the pin and MB. My FreakOut, Phenom, 1 of my Mutants, my SuperFreak, my Unleashed, all of them, the same thing. I am wondering if Track should refund my money for all of those balls. Actually, I have drilled 4 other Animals and 3 of them were all not aligned.


I guess it is possible for that to happen to you, you may have a defective ball. I doubt it very much, especially since the company rep himself told you that it is not defective. You got a bad drill pattern, one that you chose. Tell you what, i will give you $60 plus shipping for your defective Animal. I want one drilled like that anyhow. And not to mention, if it is as defective as the Animals I currently own, I am sure it will work wonderfully for me.

You chose a bad drill pattern for your game, the lane condition you are throwing it on, and for the reaction that you wanted. As already suggested, you best bet is to take it to a pro shop that has a determinator and have them spin the ball to see if the MB is marked properly. CG is not going to matter, since it has no effect on the reaction of these balls.
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Carl Hurd

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Rockbowler

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Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2004, 12:46:11 AM »
Excaliber,

I can not accept your offer since I have agreed with Bill Monce that I will make the weight hole bigger, bring the side weight to zero and bring the surface to 1500 grit. If this still does not work, then everybody can say what they want about their experiences but my experience with this one ball is it is incosistent. I hope that it works. I like Lane 1 balls and now I know what Lane 1 bashers feel everytime they criticize Lane 1. This time it is the Track defenders ganging up on me.
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