Author Topic: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal (Read 7181 times)

Rockbowler · « **on:** March 07, 2004, 11:38:37 PM »

This is a question to those who now own either or both balls. I got my Phoenom Unleashed with the Pin/CG/MB aligned while my Animal has the pin and MB aligned but the CG is at 45 degrees to the pin and MB. Is this a defect? I am still playing with my Animal so the jury is still out but I love my Unleashed. Could it be a factory defect on the Animal? Please help. Thanks!

Ishmael · « **Reply #31 on:** March 10, 2004, 08:06:35 AM »

quote:
This time it is the Track defenders ganging up on me.

Time out. I am not a Track defender. In fact, I don't currently own a Track ball. The point that I'm trying to get across is that the misalignment of the cg and mb does not make the ball defective, and that the term "blem" does not mean defective. As someone else stated, blem typically means "out of the ordinary" or "different from the normal specifications".

Again, you may have a bad ball (for reasons other than the misalignment of the cg and mb), but more than likely you simply have a ball and drill pattern that do not work for you.

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #32 on:** March 10, 2004, 01:22:24 PM »

I am not sure about anyone else, but I still have not quite figured out why Chuck Gardner got frustrated.

Rockbowler · « **Reply #33 on:** March 10, 2004, 02:21:38 PM »

quote:
He said I should believe him that it is not a blem and I should just drill a bigger weight hole. I said I have tried this before on another ball but it did not work.(Also, I hate to disagree with king of the mill but a blem is defective). By now he seems to be agitated and he is raising his voice. I asked why is he getting upset and he said because I choose to believe fricking (his words) ballreviews.com (since I said I learned from the site that a misalignment of 1 1/2" is a blem).

EX,

I know you added a tongue icon to your comments but just in case you are really asking why Chuck got frustrated, I included my comments on my conversation with him. It seems that this guy's heart is not in Customer Service. He does not listen to what I am saying but just wants me to accept what he says. It is not a two-way conversation with him. I had a message on my cell phone from him this morning but I did not call him anymore. I do not relish being yelled at by company representatives. And I do not know if you are insinuating something but I did not do anything to provoke his disrespectful response. Thanks for all those who helped even the avid defenders of Track.

Thanks also to Bill Monce who was very helpful and courteous.

tenpinspro · « **Reply #34 on:** March 10, 2004, 03:27:44 PM »

Hey Guys,

I've just put in a few requests to my technical contacts from other companies in regards to their definition of blems. Assuming King of the Mill is correct, I can't see this many balls getting out from the VARIOUS manufacturers that look like this without being marked as a blem. I've drilled quite a few balls where the misalignment was greater then 1 1/2.

As stated before Rock, this isn't about being a Track defender for me. If a ball was truly defective from ANY manufacturer, I immediately would replace it for my customer and my contacts have been great in doing so. My issue is whether or not these are actual blems or perhaps their measurements and standards have deviated from the original 1 1/2 inch theory. I'll keep you guys posted, thanks.
--------------------
Rick Leong
Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Pro Shop Staff
Vise Grip Staff

Mustang Guy · « **Reply #35 on:** March 10, 2004, 05:43:03 PM »

I was asked to chime in and offer some information. I have only skimmed a few of the posts and read the last. Reading the last post I don't know if everything I have to say is going to clear up this post or not, but here goes:

IN RG BALLS, if you come across a ball where when looking at the PIN and CG that are in line and the MB is kicked right or left any where from 1-2 + inches out, this is not necessarily a BLEM. In manufacturing you do not see these balls that often, maybe less than 5% come out that way. What happens is when making a large run of bowling balls the weight block sit on an axis and it gets tipped to pull the cg away from the pin (creating a pin out and aligning the MB). Sometimes (talking about that less than 5%) the weight block slightly turns and that is why you see those MB markings left or right of the pin and cg. This pertains only to early asymmetrical designs, (assault & fuel). OUR newer asymmetrical designs like the Apocalypse & Pure Fuel are much stronger asymmetrically and the pin, cg and MB all line up. The balls that have the MB kicked left or right can be tricky when it comes to drilling them. Some of these balls work better for left handers and some better for right handers. Sometimes they can be a pain to drill and other times you can do certain drill patterns with these that you couldn't normally do when everything lined up. Either way I hope this helped some what and my intentions weren't to comment on any layouts or anything just explain that these aren't blems just because the MB is left or right and not in line with the Pin and CG.

Thanks,
--------------------
Roger Noordhoek
Technical & Customer
Services Manager
Roto Grip, Inc.
888-450-6920
RogerN@rotogrip.com
www.rotogrip.com

For all your Roto Grip Logo Merchandise please visit www.rotogear.com

Mustang Guy · « **Reply #36 on:** March 10, 2004, 05:50:03 PM »

After reading some more I wonder if I commented on everything that needed to be. All BLEMS are marked on the ball with a C or B from Roto Grip. B marked balls are just as King of the Mill stated (cg's off, too much or too little top weight, etc...) and certain things need to be checked before they are drilled. C marked balls are cosmetic blems where the balls are 100% drillable, but have a scratch, engraving error, pin too large, etc...

I thought I was asked to come here to explain why a MB gets shifted left or right. I will come back later to check to see if there are any more questions.

Thanks,

--------------------
Roger Noordhoek
Technical & Customer
Services Manager
Roto Grip, Inc.
888-450-6920
RogerN@rotogrip.com
www.rotogrip.com

For all your Roto Grip Logo Merchandise please visit www.rotogear.com

Rockbowler · « **Reply #37 on:** March 10, 2004, 06:04:03 PM »

quote:
OUR newer asymmetrical designs like the Apocalypse & Pure Fuel are much stronger asymmetrically and the pin, cg and MB all line up. The balls that have the MB kicked left or right can be tricky when it comes to drilling them. Some of these balls work better for left handers and some better for right handers. Sometimes they can be a pain to drill and other times you can do certain drill patterns with these that you couldn't normally do when everything lined up.

.

Thanks for chiming in, ROger. When you said that the misaligned balls are triccky to drill, did you mean in terms of achieving the correct static weights? Or did you mean that this "trickiness" may result in inconsistent results if the driller is not knowledgeable enough? Shouldn't there be a disclaimer or some kind of special drilling instructions for these balls so the bowlers who happen to purchase these balls know exactly what to expect? Thanks again!

tenpinspro · « **Reply #38 on:** March 11, 2004, 06:28:26 AM »

Thanks to Mustang Guy for his input. I also have another reply from one manufacturer but I'm waiting on a another to help support my discussion, thanks.
--------------------
Rick Leong
Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Pro Shop Staff
Vise Grip Staff

tenpinspro · « **Reply #39 on:** March 14, 2004, 08:36:39 AM »

Hey Guys,

This was the response received from Track and this is their position concerning this discussion about cg's being more than 1.5 inches out of alignment from a line drawn from pin thru mass bias.

Quote:

Those balls are not blems. Cg placement on strong asymmetric balls has no bearing on ball reaction. Thanks for the email.

Bill Monce
Director of Sales
Track International

End Quote
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hopefully Rock, this will make you feel more at ease about your ball and that you did not receive a blem, thanks.

--------------------
Rick Leong
Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Pro Shop Staff
Vise Grip Staff

Strider · « **Reply #40 on:** March 14, 2004, 10:50:09 PM »

If Track doesn't want to call them blems, that's acceptable. Strong MB or not, you can't say the CG has no effect.

If you put the pin over the ring finger and the MB is stacked below (assume 3-4 oz top)...

CG in line, maybe a small to medium weight hole
CG left 1.5", no weight hole needed
CG right 1.5" = monster weighthole

They can't all roll the same.
--------------------
Penn State Proud

tenpinspro · « **Reply #41 on:** March 15, 2004, 12:13:52 AM »

Agreed Strider,

I believe Bill's intentions were that if the static weights can be drilled within ABC limits w or w/o a weight hole, your main 2 key elements to ball reaction are still the pin and mass bias, that's all. As mentioned by a few of us before that some of these balls can be a pain to drill. However, I didn't think of the concept of left or right handed balls as Roger stated. That hasn't happened since Roto used to make built in side weight in balls for right handed and left handed bowlers back in the 70's. Thanks for catching that though..
--------------------
Rick Leong
Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Pro Shop Staff
Vise Grip Staff

Author Topic: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal (Read 7181 times)

Rockbowler

Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal

Ishmael

Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal

Rockbowler

Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal

tenpinspro

Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal

Mustang Guy

Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal

Mustang Guy

Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal

Rockbowler

Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal

tenpinspro

Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal

tenpinspro

Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal

Strider

Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal

tenpinspro

Re: Question on Misaligned Pin/CG/MB on Unleashed and Animal