Author Topic: RIsing Drilling Question.... (Read 2591 times)

DukeHarding · « **on:** November 20, 2007, 03:17:00 PM »

I decided to keep, and re-drill the thumb on one of the pre-drilled Risings I bought.

This is the layout

Label Specs....

Question: with a starting TW of 2 oz...Why would the wt. hole be as big as it is drilled? also fingerhole depths? Wouldn't be for legal static weights?

I'm plugging the thumb and lengthening the span (1.2"). \Keeping the other bowlers layout.
He is a lower track stroker, and did not like the ball reaction at all.

My PAP is 5-3/8, 1/4" up...

Any ideas?

TIA,
--------------------
Duke Harding

Bowling Balls For Sale...

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #1 on:** November 21, 2007, 01:05:11 AM »

I dont know why the weight hole would be that big. The fact is that weight hole other then returning the ball to legal stats, wont change the reaction of the rising. The only way a weight hole will change reaction is to have it be 1 1/4" and 3" deep. That is the only way you will remove enough of the mass from the ball to have it change reaction.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

T-GOD · « **Reply #2 on:** November 21, 2007, 08:20:01 AM »

With those ball specs and the way it's drilled, the ball will have negative side and bottom weight. This will really tame the ball down on the back end.

Maybe the guy has a lot of side rotation, becasue that's what'll be needed for this ball to have a strong backend reaction. This ball should roll really smooth, with a soft backend motion if not rollout. =:^D

DukeHarding · « **Reply #3 on:** November 21, 2007, 09:00:13 AM »

quote:
With those ball specs and the way it's drilled, the ball will have negative side and bottom weight. This will really tame the ball down on the back end.

Maybe the guy has a lot of side rotation, becasue that's what'll be needed for this ball to have a strong backend reaction. This ball should roll really smooth, with a soft backend motion if not rollout. =:^D

His track is about 3" from the thumb&finger holes.
He said the ball hit like poop, sounded flat when it hit the pins.

I think I'm going to plug the ball totally and start from scratch...I want to give the ball a fair chance...so I should start out with a ball laid out to my pap.

--------------------
Duke Harding

Bowling Balls For Sale...

jls · « **Reply #4 on:** November 21, 2007, 09:56:24 AM »

i would plug the thumb and fingers and weight hole and start fresh using your own specs:

and more then likely, you won't need that big of a weight hole.

did you have the ball weighed?

does it have neg s.w. on it now?

good luck
--------------------
jls, proud watcher of womens golf

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #5 on:** November 21, 2007, 10:15:07 AM »

quote:
First of all, any weight hole will alter the dynamic properties of a drilled ball. This is fact! That being said it must be understood that the larger the hole and greater mass removed, the greater effect will be had.

Why this ball has this hole in this location is unknown. If you know the person who owned the ball you might want to ask them. One thing I would be curious of though is what are the current static weights. While Ebonite is extremely good at manufacturing (probably the industry leader right now) there is always the possibility the label was incorrect.
--------------------
Precision

The statement I used was from Ron that he stated at the local Seminar on the Risning. The normal thoughts of cores and weight removed is not normal when you deal with a ball that has a core that is over 7lbs. The signifigance that any weight hole under the 1 1/4" and 3" on the rising, has the same affect on ball motion as the placement of a Asymetrical ball with a Int-Diff of .004. The affect is not even able to be seen or noticed when it comes to ball performance. If it wasnt for the USBC rule the cg would not have been marked on this ball. That is how little the cg and static weights and the changing of the static weights mean for this ball.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

DukeHarding · « **Reply #6 on:** November 21, 2007, 10:47:55 AM »

quote:
The statement I used was from Ron that he stated at the local Seminar on the Risning. The normal thoughts of cores and weight removed is not normal when you deal with a ball that has a core that is over 7lbs. The signifigance that any weight hole under the 1 1/4" and 3" on the rising, has the same affect on ball motion as the placement of a Asymetrical ball with a Int-Diff of .004. The affect is not even able to be seen or noticed when it comes to ball performance. If it wasnt for the USBC rule the cg would not have been marked on this ball. That is how little the cg and static weights and the changing of the static weights mean for this ball.

I was scratching my head about your statement:
"The only way a weight hole will change reaction is to have it be 1 1/4" and 3" deep." . . .

So it refers ONLY to THIS particular ball because of the large corse size, and diff?

--------------------
Duke Harding

Bowling Balls For Sale...

DukeHarding · « **Reply #7 on:** November 21, 2007, 10:55:25 AM »

quote:
i would plug the thumb and fingers and weight hole and start fresh using your own specs:

and more then likely, you won't need that big of a weight hole.

did you have the ball weighed?

does it have neg s.w. on it now?

good luck
--------------------
jls, proud watcher of womens golf

I just picked the balls up last Thursday.
I don't have a scale.

I'll have my driller (Anthony Marino), weigh it before he plugs it.

--------------------
Duke Harding

Bowling Balls For Sale...

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #8 on:** November 21, 2007, 11:31:47 AM »

quote:
quote:
The statement I used was from Ron that he stated at the local Seminar on the Risning. The normal thoughts of cores and weight removed is not normal when you deal with a ball that has a core that is over 7lbs. The signifigance that any weight hole under the 1 1/4" and 3" on the rising, has the same affect on ball motion as the placement of a Asymetrical ball with a Int-Diff of .004. The affect is not even able to be seen or noticed when it comes to ball performance. If it wasnt for the USBC rule the cg would not have been marked on this ball. That is how little the cg and static weights and the changing of the static weights mean for this ball.

I was scratching my head about your statement:
"The only way a weight hole will change reaction is to have it be 1 1/4" and 3" deep." . . .

So it refers ONLY to THIS particular ball because of the large corse size, and diff?

--------------------
Duke Harding

Bowling Balls For Sale...

Yes the weight hole size and depth I speak of is only for the rising, and more then likly any other ball on the market with a 7lb+ core. I can think of one other ball this may be true with.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

tenpinspro · « **Reply #9 on:** November 21, 2007, 12:57:07 PM »

quote:
Question: with a starting TW of 2 oz...Why would the wt. hole be as big as it is drilled?

Hey Duke,

On an educated guess, if he drilled the fingers first and went 2.5 in depth, he actually created more thumb weight then needed. After weighing it out, he realized he had too much thumb so he had to drill a correction hole that big and deep to fix his primary error. There is also the possibility that cg is not marked correctly but for all the ones I've drilled, they've been fine.

I pm'd you with a suggestion regarding layout, thanks.

--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl - Tech Support
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

DukeHarding · « **Reply #10 on:** November 21, 2007, 01:48:55 PM »

quote:
quote:
Question: with a starting TW of 2 oz...Why would the wt. hole be as big as it is drilled?

Hey Duke,

On an educated guess, if he drilled the fingers first and went 2.5 in depth, he actually created more thumb weight then needed. After weighing it out, he realized he had too much thumb so he had to drill a correction hole that big and deep to fix his primary error. There is also the possibility that cg is not marked correctly but for all the ones I've drilled, they've been fine.

I pm'd you with a suggestion regarding layout, thanks.

--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl - Tech Support
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

Rick,

Thanks for the PM.

Good hearing from you again.

I've received a lot of balls from this bowler...he seems to favor a low pin layout w/cg kicked out, and normally a wt. hole.

Some of the balls had the 1st flare ring on the middle finger about 1/8"-1/4".
Didn't seem to affect the ball roll or finish much.

I'll have my driller take a look at the ball...if you don't mind, I could have himcontact you.
--------------------
Duke Harding

Bowling Balls in my eBay Store...

tenpinspro · « **Reply #11 on:** November 21, 2007, 02:11:19 PM »

quote:

Rick,

Thanks for the PM.

Good hearing from you again.

I've received a lot of balls from this bowler...he seems to favor a low pin layout w/cg kicked out, and normally a wt. hole.

Some of the balls had the 1st flare ring on the middle finger about 1/8"-1/4".
Didn't seem to affect the ball roll or finish much.

I'll have my driller take a look at the ball...if you don't mind, I could have himcontact you.
--------------------
Duke Harding

Hey Duke,

Please feel free to have your driller call me. I want to make sure the mb is placed accordingly to your pap for your desired reaction shape, thanks.

--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl - Tech Support
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

T-GOD · « **Reply #12 on:** November 21, 2007, 04:04:34 PM »

Duke,

Plug the whole ball and re-drill it with max side and max finger. =:^D

DukeHarding · « **Reply #13 on:** November 21, 2007, 04:12:55 PM »

quote:
Duke,

Plug the whole ball and re-drill it with max side and max finger. =:^D

I decided to sell the 2 RISINGS...
I'm bowling well with 14#.
Why get my old body confused.
I'll buy a 14# NIB and give it a fair chance.

I'll have to sell off my NIB 15# INERTIAS to pay for it.

I remember g uys coming in and asking (back in the 70s), for MAX SIDE AND FINGER...
So the ball would hook ALOT!

Now people ask for PIN positions, not PIN to PAP...
They see ROBERT SMITH, or TOMMY JONES throw a ball, and notice the PIN position, and want a ball drilled just like that...so the ball will react the same for them!!!

Happy Thanksgiving!
--------------------
Duke Harding

Bowling Balls in my eBay Store...

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #14 on:** November 22, 2007, 02:04:16 AM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
First of all, any weight hole will alter the dynamic properties of a drilled ball. This is fact! That being said it must be understood that the larger the hole and greater mass removed, the greater effect will be had.

Why this ball has this hole in this location is unknown. If you know the person who owned the ball you might want to ask them. One thing I would be curious of though is what are the current static weights. While Ebonite is extremely good at manufacturing (probably the industry leader right now) there is always the possibility the label was incorrect.
--------------------
Precision

The statement I used was from Ron that he stated at the local Seminar on the Risning. The normal thoughts of cores and weight removed is not normal when you deal with a ball that has a core that is over 7lbs. The signifigance that any weight hole under the 1 1/4" and 3" on the rising, has the same affect on ball motion as the placement of a Asymetrical ball with a Int-Diff of .004. The affect is not even able to be seen or noticed when it comes to ball performance. If it wasnt for the USBC rule the cg would not have been marked on this ball. That is how little the cg and static weights and the changing of the static weights mean for this ball.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

Mark,

You might want to give Ron a call to have him explain the effect of weight holes again so you fully understand. What I'm sure he said is that a smaller hole would not significantly alter this balls PSA (high Rg axis); this does not mean a smaller hole will not alter ball dynamics. The Rising does not re-write the laws of physics. Any hole drilled into a ball will alter that balls mass properties, this is fact.
--------------------
Precision

The words I used are that the size of the hole will not show a meassurable reaction difference. The only way you will affect the Rising to see any difference in reaction with a weight hole is to have one with a hole 3" deep and with the use of a 1 1/4" drill bit. The Rising does re-write the laws of bowling balls. Heck for instance I wasnt going to bring this up, but look at the proshop insider. A ball with a core creates contors that you can measure with the use of computers, and data. The contor rings on a "Symetrical" ball are even and round, around the ball starting from the pin all the way around the ball. On an Asymetrical ball, the contors are more of an elipse, and when you start to very the away from the pin and MB they start to get skewed out of the elipse and into more what looks like a drawing of a 2 or 3 year old. The closer you get to the 180 degree mark from the mb the contors get further apart form each other and more odd shaped. On the rising you start with the normal Asymetrical contors yet when you start to get further away they dont go into the un-cany shape like normal Asymetrical balls. The contors start to go back in order much like the Symetrical balls yet still in the elipse shape. So this is one of the reasons the Rising is different and why the MB can be placed anywhere. If all Aysmetrical balls had the same strength of the MB in the marked spot and in the 180 degree spot, they wouldnt do this with there contors. Ebonite shows some of this data in a article writen by Ron in the Pro Shop Insider with Rick and Carl on the cover. They show the Aysmetrical balls controls from a Total NV.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

Author Topic: RIsing Drilling Question.... (Read 2591 times)

DukeHarding

RIsing Drilling Question....

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: RIsing Drilling Question....

T-GOD

Re: RIsing Drilling Question....

DukeHarding

Re: RIsing Drilling Question....

jls

Re: RIsing Drilling Question....

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: RIsing Drilling Question....

DukeHarding

Re: RIsing Drilling Question....

DukeHarding

Re: RIsing Drilling Question....

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: RIsing Drilling Question....

tenpinspro

Re: RIsing Drilling Question....

DukeHarding

Re: RIsing Drilling Question....

tenpinspro

Re: RIsing Drilling Question....

T-GOD

Re: RIsing Drilling Question....

DukeHarding

Re: RIsing Drilling Question....

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: RIsing Drilling Question....