Author Topic: Strong ball vs weak ball...when to use the correct one (Read 4353 times)

tenpinspro · « **on:** April 09, 2007, 11:37:15 PM »

Hey there Legion, another topic from Tag Team coaching to discuss and help our fellow bowler.

The question is when should we use a strong reaction vs a weaker reaction. On many of our typical house shots where friction is highly prevalent to the right and backend, many of us tend to utilize a weaker coverstock to help stay in our comfort zone.

For some however, having to deal with our thicker oils and harder lane surfaces of today, that weaker coverstock piece becomes more susceptible to that oil and creates a little hang or lite OB downlane. For this, I recommend using a stronger cover but drilled weaker so that it doesn't overreact.

Unless your condition is completely dry and your center oil doesn't carry down or push right as much, this is a viable option. We can also polish the cover on the stronger pieces to help push it downlane but will help open up the backend better compared to a weaker piece.

Just something for you guys/gals to think about and hope it helps some. What do you currently use for this?
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Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
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Djarum · « **Reply #1 on:** April 10, 2007, 08:37:31 AM »

I think the best way to contend with oil down lane is with a pearl particle. I have been able to do this successfully with the razor blade.

What I want to know, is why do people always recommend pearl balls "as long as the backends are clean". This is starting to make no sense to me. On our THS, if I use my fired up, the ball goes 45 feet down the lane, and covers 15 boards in the last 15 feet of the lane. This is completly uncontrollable for me, and I would guess many bowlers. On this sort of shot, I have found my freak to work nicely, because it rolls sooner and does not "overreact" to the dry.

The only luck so far with this ball is if the pattern is fresh, but longer, so the ball covers maybe 10 boards in the last 10 feet of the lane. Or if the lanes are oiled shorter, say 35 feet. The pearl allows the breakpoint to push, but because there is more dry, the ball tends to arc and die a bit so you don't get that big angular movement like you do on a medium oiled shot.

Comments?

Dj
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The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #2 on:** April 10, 2007, 10:36:21 AM »

When you talked about the stronger cover with a weak drilling so you didnt see over reaction, the first layout for me that came to mind is the control layout. I knew I wasnt doing something stupid when I would start with my control drilled machine that I keep at roughly 800 grit.
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Mark "scoot" Trgovac
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Youngstown, Ohio

(The fallowing is said in a larry the cable guy type voice) "You mean to tell me that if I drill a Mass bias Ba-all, that the cd dunt matter for anything other then wens you weight it up?"

"Freak Bowling Ball cleaner of the TRACK Revolution."

splendorlex · « **Reply #3 on:** April 10, 2007, 04:02:25 PM »

What is a "control layout?" Does it differ significantly depending on your style, PAP?
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Mr. Lebowski, this is Bill Salnicker with the Southern Cal Bowling League, and I just got a, an informal report, that a member of your team, uh, Walter Sobchak, drew a firearm during league play. If this is true of course, it contravenes a number of the league's by-laws, and article 27 of the league...

I invented America.

Proud member of the Track Legion, though I'm seeing other companies on the side.

tenpinspro · « **Reply #4 on:** April 10, 2007, 04:07:03 PM »

quote:
What is a "control layout?" Does it differ significantly depending on your style, PAP?

Yes Ryan, it should be relevant to the individual's pap as with all layouts. Control can be obtained in a few ways, two personal favorites of mine are to either drill pin over/under middle finger with mb slightly right of thumb (if applicable) or pin near or close to pap to minimize flare.
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Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
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Ragnar · « **Reply #5 on:** April 10, 2007, 04:18:38 PM »

Oddly enough, I have at times had success using a stronger ball on drier conditions. There have been at least a couple of times when I've gone stronger on drier to get the ball to "roll-out/set". Seems odd, but it can be effective. And this strategy comes with no guarantees.
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"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"I'm capable of being just as sorry as you are, Dimitri."

splendorlex · « **Reply #6 on:** April 10, 2007, 04:22:48 PM »

What does placing the pin above the middle finger do? It seems I see a lot of layouts like that on the PBA telecasts. I understand, at least kind of, what the pin near PAP does, but not the pin above middle.
--------------------
Mr. Lebowski, this is Bill Salnicker with the Southern Cal Bowling League, and I just got a, an informal report, that a member of your team, uh, Walter Sobchak, drew a firearm during league play. If this is true of course, it contravenes a number of the league's by-laws, and article 27 of the league...

I invented America.

Proud member of the Track Legion, though I'm seeing other companies on the side.

Ragnar · « **Reply #7 on:** April 10, 2007, 04:25:06 PM »

Splen, for me, pin above middle is a negative drilled pin. Leads to mild reactions, useful (for me) for playing deeper w/o a big swing.
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"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"I'm capable of being just as sorry as you are, Dimitri."

shelley · « **Reply #8 on:** April 10, 2007, 04:32:37 PM »

quote:
What does placing the pin above the middle finger do? It seems I see a lot of layouts like that on the PBA telecasts. I understand, at least kind of, what the pin near PAP does, but not the pin above middle.

Pins above the finger line promote length, and longer pin-to-PAP distances (like near the middle finger) tend to give length and reduced backend (partly due to lower flare).

SH

tenpinspro · « **Reply #9 on:** April 10, 2007, 04:35:29 PM »

quote:
What does placing the pin above the middle finger do? It seems I see a lot of layouts like that on the PBA telecasts. I understand, at least kind of, what the pin near PAP does, but not the pin above middle.

Generically stating, by placing the pin in the finger negative quadrant, we cross the centerline of the grip which displaces some of the weight to the other side of the ball. Remember my ball bearing in a baseball analogy? It still comes down to "balance" and "imbalance".

Imagine part of the weight block sitting on the right side of the ball as it rolls down the lane. It is now fighting to some degree to which the entire weight wants to rotate to, which is typically left for a right hander (and if that bowler is creating that type of axis rotation). On the other hand, I drill pins in the finger negative quadrant for most backup bowlers to help enhance their reaction because their axis rotation is now going that direction. Hope I didn't confuse anyone by this explanation, if I did, speak up and I'll try to clarify. Thanks....
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Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
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Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

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*El Presidente of the Track Legion

Djarum · « **Reply #10 on:** April 10, 2007, 04:40:12 PM »

Is there anyone who can answer my question regarding pearl balls on squeeky clean backends?

Anyways, one thing I have noticed, control drills tend to be pin up and pin around ring finger to middle finger. This is supposed to reduce flare. The only problem I have with this, it promotes length, and with clean backends, it creates a more "angular" move, not controllable.

I agree with Rags on this one. Sometimes a higher flaring drill gets the ball to roll earlier, and if its dry enough, let it burn a little.

Dj
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The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.

tenpinspro · « **Reply #11 on:** April 10, 2007, 04:41:15 PM »

quote:
Oddly enough, I have at times had success using a stronger ball on drier conditions. There have been at least a couple of times when I've gone stronger on drier to get the ball to "roll-out/set". Seems odd, but it can be effective. And this strategy comes with no guarantees.

Thanks Rags, that's actually another way to help control backend reaction. If we can get a ball to expend more of its energy early, it reduces the amount of stored energy it will have on the backend which in turn creates "control". Also similar to what Dj stated above.

I still think your pink socks play a role in your success....

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Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

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tenpinspro · « **Reply #12 on:** April 10, 2007, 04:56:23 PM »

quote:
Is there anyone who can answer my question regarding pearl balls on squeeky clean backends?

Most likely Dj I'm assuming they like the length of that but I agree with you, with length comes stored energy which in turn translates into a strong backend reaction.

quote:
one thing I have noticed, control drills tend to be pin up and pin around ring finger

No bud, that is not considered a control drill. That is still considered to be a strong position typically. Above mid finger, yes but not above ring. Above ring still enhances reaction as it lies in the positive quadrant.

If you can still get a pin over mid ball to flip very hard, I would have to say it's a combination of your conditions tied in with your style (rev dominant?). I also can still get that drill to move pretty well being rev dominant but it is significantly weaker compared to that same piece with pin over ring.
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
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Edited on 4/10/2007 4:57 PM

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #13 on:** April 10, 2007, 05:06:24 PM »

I bowl on a condition that I consider the harshest side to side transition I have ever seen...

I mean there is oil...then there is pavement!

In general I have stopped using pearls.

I have gone to either strong cored highly polished solids with the pin way up but still somewhat strong and the mass bias weak. Or i have gone to weak cored solids with strong drillings. Both smoothly are reading this very harsh transition but making an initial NO Jump move off the harsh border and then showing a lot of continuation in to and through the pocket.

The two balls mentioned.... An X factor Deuce and a Sonic X solid.

I note again that I have seen nothing that has such a definite rock hard wall ever....anywhere. The pearls jump off this harsh wall like they have ejectors in their shoes!

REGards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Djarum · « **Reply #14 on:** April 10, 2007, 06:26:46 PM »

quote:
quote:
Is there anyone who can answer my question regarding pearl balls on squeeky clean backends?

Most likely Dj I'm assuming they like the length of that but I agree with you, with length comes stored energy which in turn translates into a strong backend reaction.

quote:
one thing I have noticed, control drills tend to be pin up and pin around ring finger

No bud, that is not considered a control drill. That is still considered to be a strong position typically. Above mid finger, yes but not above ring. Above ring still enhances reaction as it lies in the positive quadrant.

If you can still get a pin over mid ball to flip very hard, I would have to say it's a combination of your conditions tied in with your style (rev dominant?). I also can still get that drill to move pretty well being rev dominant but it is significantly weaker compared to that same piece with pin over ring.
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

Edited on 4/10/2007 4:57 PM

I understand what you are saying, but I don't see how big a difference in the pin being 1/2 inch away from the PAP would be(ring vs middle).

The only ball I've ever thrown that had a control drill was cg at center grip with pin under right between the two fingers. The problem with this drill can be clipping fingers/thumb for me.

I'm not typically rev dominant, but can be depending on conditions.

Dj
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The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.

Author Topic: Strong ball vs weak ball...when to use the correct one (Read 4353 times)

tenpinspro

Strong ball vs weak ball...when to use the correct one

Djarum

Re: Strong ball vs weak ball...when to use the correct one

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: Strong ball vs weak ball...when to use the correct one

splendorlex

Re: Strong ball vs weak ball...when to use the correct one

tenpinspro

Re: Strong ball vs weak ball...when to use the correct one

Ragnar

Re: Strong ball vs weak ball...when to use the correct one

splendorlex

Re: Strong ball vs weak ball...when to use the correct one

Ragnar

Re: Strong ball vs weak ball...when to use the correct one

shelley

Re: Strong ball vs weak ball...when to use the correct one

tenpinspro

Re: Strong ball vs weak ball...when to use the correct one

Djarum

Re: Strong ball vs weak ball...when to use the correct one

tenpinspro

Re: Strong ball vs weak ball...when to use the correct one

tenpinspro

Re: Strong ball vs weak ball...when to use the correct one

LuckyLefty

Re: Strong ball vs weak ball...when to use the correct one

Djarum

Re: Strong ball vs weak ball...when to use the correct one