Author Topic: The Phoenix.. (Read 5937 times)

tenpinspro · « **on:** March 09, 2007, 05:36:55 AM »

Per discussions with Ron Hickland (Ball Tech and Designer) and Bob Reid (VP of Marketing), Ebonite is in the business of manufacturing bowling equipment to the highest quality possibility. They explained to me in detail their extensive testing process and what criteria they feel a product needs to perform at prior to release. Unfortunately, the Phoenix did not meet these requirements.

It wasnâ€™t simply about business and money. They could have produced or released the Phoenix and taken the profits from this. But again, the ball did not meet their standards to what they considered to be in their â€œhighâ€ performance category. Instead, they are taking a loss on this project which made me appreciate what they are really trying to do there. Iâ€™ve never seen a company turn away money so this was a surprise to me but has reassured me that Ebonite is sticking to their guns regardless of gains or loss.

Ron has already begun the process of designing a few cores for the new Track line and I have offered my input to him in regards to reactions as well that our loyal Track fans are accustomed to. Just hang in there guys, there are many new and exciting things that Ebonite has planned for us. I will most likely be making a trip to Kentucky to see much of this firsthand and Iâ€™ll keep you informed with the progress. Thanks for being patient.....
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Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

Edited on 3/9/2007 2:35 PM

bowl400 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 10, 2007, 01:35:24 AM »

quote:
* Hijack Alert on *

" Rick in Kentucky " sounds like the sequel to " Deliverance "

* Hijack Alert off *

hey t, rick says you are demoted to one of the b teams!
not my doing, just what the boss wants!

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Tracy

TEXAS CONNECTION

Xfest · « **Reply #17 on:** March 10, 2007, 05:57:00 AM »

quote:
jls,

Please take a step backward, think about Rick's ethics and his standard of performance and committment to those standards for which he stands, then, please re-word what you said.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 3/9/2007 6:14 PM

I'd also like him to speak in proper English language. Something that you could actually read.
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"Do you NV me?"
Ebonite Total NV Ebonite Angular One
Hammer Black Widow Ebonite Smash Time Pearl
"Ey, Yo Crank! What ball was that?"

jls · « **Reply #18 on:** March 10, 2007, 08:51:57 AM »

quote:
If the Phoenix did not meet Ebonite's high standards, how
do they explain some of the crap balls that they have
put out in the past? The Phoenix is a good ball, better
than most of the stuff that I have seen from Ebonite.
There is a strange distance between marketing and truth.

HOW DO THEY EXPLAIN "PIGS CAN FLY"

OR MAYBE THEY JUST DON'T THINK THEY HAVE TOO!!!!!

"MARKETING AND TRUTH<<<<<<<< WELL SAID SIR!!!!
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jls31316

pnj1967 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 10, 2007, 09:26:56 AM »

You sir are an IDIOT !!!!!!!
To the ignor list !!!!!!!!

quote:
quote:
Quote
jls,

Please take a step backward, think about Rick's ethics and his standard of performance and committment to those standards for which he stands, then, please re-word what you said.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 3/9/2007 6:14 PM

the crank, you qualify.

anyone who has used any columbia or track products in the last few years, would have trouble saying they are not quality balls.

now for the TRUTH

columbia and track and storm { on some of their models } use the HIGHEST QUALITY COVERSTOCK MATERIAL FROM BASF.

from reliable sources, i have heard ebonite does not buy this high quality coverstock, the choose to buy a lower grade coverstock and do some in house tweaking!!!!!!!!!! am i going to fast for you english wan a bees?

so for any of you coffee drinking english wana bees to say that columbia/track products are "no good" you simply do not know what your talking about.

and when that happens>>> the geeks start bashing and saying stuff like speak english. give it a rest loser boy.

IT WOULD PROBABLY COST EBONITE MORE MONEY to produce the phoenix, due to the fact that they would have to buy the higher grade coverstock!!!!!!
and why should they do that, when they can save MONEY and tweak their coverstock to their specs:?

so all of you english major wan a bees, take a step back yourself.

when this rick or whatever his name is says the balls did not meet. he is
giving people the wrong impression.

newguy himself confirmed this in another post. if you english speaking wan a bee's know how to read, go read it!!!!!

stop your usual 2 bit low life bashing.

and go back to doing what you do best, surf the net in your underwear while drinking coffee.

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jls31316

Edited on 3/10/2007 9:58 AM

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Enjoy the people on the ballreview.com forum. Like to help when I can.

Users I wont deal with ;

xrage4200; Will waste your time !!!!!!!!

twckhorn ; Says he wants a ball then will not return messages

jls · « **Reply #20 on:** March 10, 2007, 09:31:39 AM »

PNJ1967 GOOD, AND NOT A MINUTE TO SOON!!!!

"IDIOT" THE TRUTH HURTS LOSER BOY?

you sir are a lowlife, don't know what your talking about, and are a graduate in honors of geek 101.

bash away

get a life.
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jls31316

directdrill · « **Reply #21 on:** March 10, 2007, 09:34:25 AM »

JLS,

DO NOT bash on Rick. Look at the number of posts he creates or responds to here on the Track forum. He is one of the most knowledgeable people in the Track forum and BR.com in general. He has helped me and my game tremendously, and has done the same for MANY others. I have talked to him on the phone on several occasions and he will talk tech talk, but makes it easy to understand. Besides, he is only relaying information provided to him from Ebonite. If you have a problem with what Ebonite said, take it up with them but leave Rick out of it.
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Hook 'em Horns!

jls · « **Reply #22 on:** March 10, 2007, 09:47:01 AM »

quote:
JLS,

DO NOT bash on Rick. Look at the number of posts he creates or responds to here on the Track forum. He is one of the most knowledgeable people in the Track forum and BR.com in general. He has helped me and my game tremendously, and has done the same for MANY others. I have talked to him on the phone on several occasions and he will talk tech talk, but makes it easy to understand. Besides, he is only relaying information provided to him from Ebonite. If you have a problem with what Ebonite said, take it up with them but leave Rick out of it.
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Hook 'em Horns!

have no problem with him, just do not agree with the meet the standards statement.
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jls31316

directdrill · « **Reply #23 on:** March 10, 2007, 10:14:17 AM »

quote:

when this rick or whatever his name is says the balls did not meet. he is
giving people the wrong impression.

JLS,

You did claim that Rick made the statement about the Phoenix not meeting Ebonite standards. Read Rick's original post again. This statement was made by Ron and Bob from Ebonite, NOT Rick.
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Hook 'em Horns!

jls · « **Reply #24 on:** March 10, 2007, 10:21:09 AM »

yes drirect, i said that, when he repeats that, it may make people think that the phoenis is a pos. it is not.

the meet the standard thing, is more likely due to the difference is the way the two make their coverstocks, it is probably more costly for ebonite to try to duplicate columbia/track coverstock.

and why should they, when they have such quality coverstocks of their own.

does not make the phoenix a bad ball.

THAT SIR WAS AND IS THE POINT.

have a nice day direct, will talk to you later.

rick, no way bashing you, sorry if it looked like it.

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jls31316

Stan · « **Reply #25 on:** March 10, 2007, 10:45:42 AM »

I also received the letter from Ebonite about not producing the Phoenix. I also heard from an ex-Track rep that ebonite does not have the ability to reproduce the core. Not sure if this is sour grapes or not.

Given, the core, coverstock and filler material, they would have a problem reproducing the EXACT ball.

Makes perfect sense to me why they would choose not to make the ball. Also, the balls in stock are being offered to overseas proshops until they are gone. Guess, if any are left over, they will just dump them in the trash.

Just what I read and heard.

jls · « **Reply #26 on:** March 10, 2007, 12:18:19 PM »

quote:
I also received the letter from Ebonite about not producing the Phoenix. I also heard from an ex-Track rep that ebonite does not have the ability to reproduce the core. Not sure if this is sour grapes or not.

Given, the core, coverstock and filler material, they would have a problem reproducing the EXACT ball.

Makes perfect sense to me why they would choose not to make the ball. Also, the balls in stock are being offered to overseas proshops until they are gone. Guess, if any are left over, they will just dump them in the trash.

Just what I read and heard.

STAN<<<< WELL SAID, and that's what i have been saying, why should they make it.

but don't lead people to believe that this ball is a P.O.S. because it is not.

and that is what i tried to point out.

ebonite has their own coverstocks, and then are doing great. so why try to do columbia/tracks?

smart move.

but the phoenix is a good ball.

thanks
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jls31316

Rev_O · « **Reply #27 on:** March 10, 2007, 12:37:56 PM »

Isn't there a height requirement at the Kentucky State line??

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Rev-O

jls · « **Reply #28 on:** March 10, 2007, 01:13:54 PM »

quote:
jls, Are you by any chance related to the themezz. You sure do seem to like to cause trouble, or at least try to do that.

Let us know more about yourself, put some thing in your profile.

Quote
Quote
Quote

when this rick or whatever his name is says the balls did not meet. he is
giving people the wrong impression.

BIGMOUTH OR MOUTHBIG

it's called causing trouble??? when you stick up for the quality of a ball.

if that be the case, then whatever loser boy.
once again you have shown that you know nothing about what is being talked about here. so you do the geek thing and bash.

THE PHONEIX IS AND WOULD HAVE BEEN A QUALITY BALL.

ebonite can not or does not want to make it.

so what!!!!!!

it does not mean that the phoenix is a P.O.S.

JLS,

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Edited on 3/10/2007 2:12 PM

Edited on 3/12/2007 1:49 PM

themagician · « **Reply #29 on:** March 10, 2007, 01:16:22 PM »

Just to add my 2cents. How many times do balls like this actually happen?

Think about it, i'm sure companies make x amount of a new ball regardless of it going into mass production. The way I see it as this is just a ball we found out about, this stuff happens but normally the public doesn't know or its not this type of buyout situation.

Its one ball and Ebonite is handling it the way they seem fit and there is no reason to complain as there will be more new balls and plenty others out there.

Also we should thank Ron Hickland, Rick Leong and many others for there contributions on the subject, we have learned alot from them about the situation and shouldn't argue something with them when they are trying to help us benefit.
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Just another aspiring junior bowler who hasn't hit full stride yet.

jls · « **Reply #30 on:** March 12, 2007, 11:01:08 AM »

quote:
jls31316,
Do you work for Ebonite? I'm not sure why you are so emphatic about getting your point across, since if you don't work at Ebonite, you truly know as much about the whole situation as the rest of us... and that ain't much.

Rick's original post said nothing about the Phoenix being a P.O.S. It simply said that it din't meet Ebonite's requirements. That could be performance, cost, ease of replication, or a number of other things.

Nobody said the Phoenix was a P.O.S... you read that into Rick's post and then turned on anybody with a counter-point, like a rabid dog. Chill brotha. So, the Phoenix won't be released. There will be others, maybe worse, maybe better. Only time will tell...

-TyShoe

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Proud member of the Track Legion...... Holy Flaming T!
X X X X X X X X 9/ XXX... Darn wiggling 7 pin!
Click on my profile to check out my balls!
My league scores and journal

tyrone>>> please read>>> "their extensive testing process and what criteria they feel a product needs to perform at prior to release"

these are his words>>>>> now to me, it makes the ball out to be a non performer. having read reviews from those who have tested this ball. they seem to feel this was an excellent ball.

now if your bothered to read newguys post, i believe he stated his reasons why this ball was not released. and newguy should know. do you know who knowguy is?

he is and was the head of track / dynothane at one time.

many people believe the reason was "cost" not performance.

and ebonite was smart not to release this ball. untill such time as they can
make a coverstock that will meet their requirements.

subject closed
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jls31316

Author Topic: The Phoenix.. (Read 5937 times)

tenpinspro

The Phoenix..

bowl400

Re: The Phoenix..

Xfest

Re: The Phoenix..

jls

Re: The Phoenix..

pnj1967

Re: The Phoenix..

jls

Re: The Phoenix..

directdrill

Re: The Phoenix..

jls

Re: The Phoenix..

directdrill

Re: The Phoenix..

jls

Re: The Phoenix..

Stan

Re: The Phoenix..

jls

Re: The Phoenix..

Rev_O

Re: The Phoenix..

jls

Re: The Phoenix..

themagician

Re: The Phoenix..

jls

Re: The Phoenix..