Author Topic: The Rising Drill Sheet (Read 12646 times)

jhutch769 · « **on:** October 23, 2007, 11:38:36 AM »

Hello,

We just got in a few Risings on Monday and before we drill mine, we wanted to take a closer look at the 360 degree drilling technique. Any idea where we can get more information on that? It says to look up trackbowling.com on the drill sheet, but neither my dad nor I were able to find further information.

We feel that the recommended drilling may be a tad too strong for me.

If anyone has any suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated.

I think my speed is 17 mph and RPM is 375-425.. can't quite remember all the numbers are on the other computer.. Have not computed my axis tilt.

Here are some links to some of my videos..

http://putfile.com/jhutch757

Thank you,

Joe

jhutch769 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 24, 2007, 10:52:34 AM »

still no help yet, would like to drill up for tonights league session..

posted same topic on tracks website last night, not replies there yet either.

tenpinspro · « **Reply #17 on:** October 24, 2007, 11:26:44 AM »

quote:

Over-reacting much? I don't think he implied that at all. It would be hard to believe that owner of one of the most respected online shops around would say that.

I took his statement as saying that laying out a Rising is no different from any other strong asymmetric from any other company. The One and NV lines, the former Rule and Machine lines, the Awesome balls from Morich, Epics, Paradigms, and all those other balls with significant MB diffs use basically the same drilling techniques. In that regard, there's nothing special about the Rising.

Do you need to be more careful laying out a Rising compared to, say, a Power Groove or Nighthawk? Sure. Does it have requirements that those balls don't? Heck yeah.

SH

Hey shelly, that's the problem...quick question, are you familiar with the ball motion/axis migration and contours when we push mass bias past .030? The contours no longer even hold the standard elliptical movement, it goes beserk! If you have seen this on CAD, you would be amazed...."again" I apologize if anybody took offense to this post but then again, all I'm trying to do here is to inform and help our fellow bowler (as we all have been doing here).

This ball "IS" very different and I just wanted to inform everyone of that fact. This is no different then when I corrected Clint Daley when he told Rock77 to drill his Machine (.025 mb diff) the same way as his other equipment (.017 mb diff or less) to expect the same reaction by placing the mb in the "same" place.

Guys, pushing the mb diff this high is a great and new technology (along w/Mo's) but please be careful in placement. You CAN'T just treat it the same...
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl - Tech Support
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

woodzx12 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 24, 2007, 04:06:59 PM »

Quote

Lonce,

-Carl
--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
with locations in:
Youngstown Ohio (West Side Lanes)
and
Boardman Ohio (Camelot Lanes)

Track Intl- Tech Support
The Legion Lives @ www.trackbowling.com

Tag Team Member #1

carl you stated that the rising should have a 1 inch pin and a half ounce of top weight. well my ball has a 4 inch pin and 2 ounces of top weight.the dill sheet is only good for 1 inch pin drilling. the drill sheet that comes in the box is also wrong. only for right handed bowlers no lefties.i drilled a regular asymetrcal dilling on this ball. i hope people dont buy this ball and have it drilled wrong. that would suck to pay 220.00 and the ball is a (pos) peace of s_ _ t... would be nice if your drill sheets had more information on the 360 drilling. the instructions are not very good.

Bar5003 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 24, 2007, 04:22:29 PM »

quote:
only for right handed bowlers no lefties.

i may be wrong but wouldnt you just mirror the layout for lefties? I think it even says that in the instructions...
--------------------

~Britton~

Owner and Operator of

www.videoballreviews.com

VISE inserts The OFFICAL grip of videoballreviews.com

www.viseinserts.com

Edited on 10/24/2007 4:22 PM

woodzx12 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 24, 2007, 04:29:10 PM »

quote:
quote:
only for right handed bowlers no lefties.

i may be wrong but wouldnt you just mirror the layout for lefties? I think it even says that in the instructions...
--------------------
~Britton~

Owner and Operator of

www.videoballreviews.com

VISE inserts The OFFICAL grip of videoballreviews.com

www.viseinserts.com

Edited on 10/24/2007 4:22 PM

on line the drill sheet is correct one for right handed and one for left handed. the box has them both for right handed no lefties allowed. i will be headed for the lanes in one hour. i hope that this ball is all what it is cranked up to be. i dont want to see my black widow pearl out hook it. til thursday see ya.

jhutch769 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 24, 2007, 09:19:30 PM »

Drilled mine with the sheet layout after all. Strong motion, continues through the pins.

Just finished league a bit ago... Started front 7 then moved the ten pin to the nine pin spot. Finished 258. Next front 8, smash 9, solid 7, finished 268.. Then I lost my speed and started moving around and finished 203...

Like it so far, will make a video soon, maybe even tomorrow.

stormed1 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 25, 2007, 12:33:20 AM »

Drill sheet says go to Tracks website for additional drillings. The only one i found there is the same that comes with the ball. Anyone know where they are located on the site?

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #23 on:** October 25, 2007, 01:11:11 AM »

quote:
DO not use polish on this ball. It made the carry worse and the reaction worse. The recommended layout will work for 95% of people who buy this ball. Pretty much your pin to pap will be whatever your horizontal pap measurement is.

This is a wrong statement. You would add polish to delay the hook. For many bowlers on a standard house shot this ball will roll quick, which is what Lonce is stating below.

quote:
carl you stated that the rising should have a 1 inch pin and a half ounce of top weight. well my ball has a 4 inch pin and 2 ounces of top weight.the dill sheet is only good for 1 inch pin drilling. the drill sheet that comes in the box is also wrong. only for right handed bowlers no lefties.i drilled a regular asymetrcal dilling on this ball. i hope people dont buy this ball and have it drilled wrong. that would suck to pay 220.00 and the ball is a (pos) peace of s_ _ t... would be nice if your drill sheets had more information on the 360 drilling. the instructions are not very good.

Where did I state this? We had targeted specs we wanted to hit, which were 2-2 1/4pin and 2-2 1/4TW. Most ball companies of targeted specs of 3 inch pins and 3oz topweight....but they vary don't they?
The drill sheet is not wrong. When you look at a drill sheet for any bowling ball it always shows right handed layouts, reverse it for left handed layouts.
The reason that the 360* layouts are not on the drill sheet is simple: the #1 layout is going to give the best overall ball motion. Changing the coverstock can make this layout work on almost any lane condtion. ALSO: the advanced layouts are available on the website for the pro shops that signed up for our Fast Track Program. These layouts will be released weekly or biweekly until they are all on the site.

-Carl

--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
with locations in:
Youngstown Ohio (West Side Lanes)
and
Boardman Ohio (Camelot Lanes)

Track Intl- Tech Support
The Legion Lives @ www.trackbowling.com

Tag Team Member #1

TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder

BuddiesProShopcom - Bill · « **Reply #24 on:** October 25, 2007, 01:50:19 AM »

Carl:

The thing that is funny to me is that I went to Bowl Expo, and several trade shows held by distributors, and all the Track Reps at these shows were saying that this ball would be within the specs that I talked about before. I understand things changed, I just think people were expecting one thing, and then something else was delivered.

I spoke with Randy Tightloft (sorry if I got that wrong) from Ebonite that is doing the Rising seminar and I just ask him if you can do any asymmetrical layout and he said yes. Mo's LevRG has as heavy of a core as the Rising and similiar Differential, and there are a variety of layout that you can do with that ball. I think the one recommended layout thing is to keep it simple but it ends up confusing pro shop when they don't see and can't do exactly what they see in the picture.

The 360 technology has been around with any Asymmetrical ball, but hasn't really been talked about. Where the Mass Bias is located creates a plane that goes straight through the ball and comes out on the other side. This will have with any Asymmetrical ball. I have seen Mass Bias X-Out or Blems that the CG is above the Mass Bias and Pin line. So in that case you would need to bring the Mass Bias to the other side of the ball and lay it out using the plane of the Mass Bias on the opposite side of the ball, basically how it is described in the Rising sheets.

As for the other layouts they are suppose to be up on Track's website November 1st.
--------------------
Thanks
Bill
BuddiesProShop.com
"The Place All Bowlers Shop"

shelley · « **Reply #25 on:** October 25, 2007, 07:06:42 AM »

quote:
As for the other layouts they are suppose to be up on Track's website November 1st.

Hopefully not in DOC format this time.

SH

Atochabsh · « **Reply #26 on:** October 25, 2007, 02:39:54 PM »

Called Ebonite because I could not find "The code" to get trick or additional layouts. I was put forward to the technical advisor who told me that the code had to be gotten from the product manager "Paul"? That he has the code and has not put it on the web site as of yet. The reason being, as I was told, was that he believed the one layout would suit nearly all bowlers.

Not very happy, since we could not attend the seminar due to work constrictions.

Erin

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #27 on:** October 25, 2007, 02:53:10 PM »

quote:
The thing that is funny to me is that I went to Bowl Expo, and several trade shows held by distributors, and all the Track Reps at these shows were saying that this ball would be within the specs that I talked about before. I understand things changed, I just think people were expecting one thing, and then something else was delivered.

Bill- The reason for the change is the process of ball manufacturing. Once everthing is poured and set up no one can predict or manipulate where the CG will end up. So far I am happy, the longer pins are fine and vast majority of the topweights are lower as expected. You are very correct about the LevRG, however remember one thing....there is only 1MB on the LevRG, the Rising has 2, so the technology is different. Where there may still end up being a MB the rating is far lower than the marked MB on standard asymmetrical balls, on the Rising it is equally .031 on both sides.

-Carl
--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
with locations in:
Youngstown Ohio (West Side Lanes)
and
Boardman Ohio (Camelot Lanes)

Track Intl- Tech Support
The Legion Lives @ www.trackbowling.com

Tag Team Member #1

TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder

shelley · « **Reply #28 on:** October 25, 2007, 03:19:50 PM »

quote:
there is only 1MB on the LevRG, the Rising has 2, so the technology is different. Where there may still end up being a MB the rating is far lower than the marked MB on standard asymmetrical balls, on the Rising it is equally .031 on both sides.

I will have to disagree here. You cannot talk about there being two mass biases "equal on both sides" simply due to the fact that the MB strength is simply a difference in the RG values on different axes. The axis goes completely through the ball and when you measure the RG, it makes no difference whether you put (say) the pin at the north pole or at the south pole. That RG will be the same either way.

The RG describes how mass is distributed around an axis, it just doesn't make sense to say that the MB diff for the LevRG is 0.033 on one side but not the other.

Is there a difference laying the ball out with the two different ends of the axis? Sure. I can look to Visionary's AMB system and know that. Why are the AMB balls like that? Because if you drill into the core, you change the core dynamics (ask Brunswick, right?). By creating a lighter spot on the opposite side, you can create a mass bias (the extra mass is opposite the light spot) but when you drill, you aren't removing heavy core material and are altering the core dynamics less.

I would bet money that if you took two AMBs, laid one out as Visionary says (find the normal MB 13.5" away from the locator pin), laid the other out using the AMB locator pin, but otherwise with the "same" layout, you'd get the same differences that Ebonite's "new" 360* technology would give you when you drill a Rising.

I admit I'm on shaky ground. I'm not a core designer, I'm not even a driller. I'm definitely not one of the new Ebonite Chosen. But this "0.031 equally on both sides" is bull.

SH

tenpinspro · « **Reply #29 on:** October 25, 2007, 04:41:02 PM »

quote:
The RG describes how mass is distributed around an axis, it just doesn't make sense to say that the MB diff for the LevRG is 0.033 on one side but not the other.

Just for discussion sake, let's go back to my coffee cup handle....the handle is now bigger or heavier (on one side and one side only)....I'm sorry but guys, this isn't that hard to comphrehend. Where ever we aim that handle can and will dictate when and where we fall with gravity....truly understanding ball motion.

Let's picture this, if the earth's core were not completely centered (we should lope, right?)....now lets add another planet to the side of it.....welcome to mass bias.

On edit: 360 is not a new technology per say(it was designed and used by Brian Pursel back 7-8 yrs ago and others maybe), BUT we have fine tuned the cover to make it work efficiently.
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl - Tech Support
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

Edited on 10/25/2007 4:53 PM

shelley · « **Reply #30 on:** October 25, 2007, 04:47:09 PM »

quote:
welcome to mass bias.

Yes, it's about time physics showed up.

SH

Author Topic: The Rising Drill Sheet (Read 12646 times)

jhutch769

The Rising Drill Sheet

jhutch769

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tenpinspro

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woodzx12

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Bar5003

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woodzx12

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jhutch769

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stormed1

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C-G ProShop-Carl

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BuddiesProShopcom - Bill

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shelley

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Atochabsh

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C-G ProShop-Carl

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shelley

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tenpinspro

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shelley

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