Author Topic: The Rising Drill Sheet (Read 12652 times)

jhutch769 · « **on:** October 23, 2007, 11:38:36 AM »

Hello,

We just got in a few Risings on Monday and before we drill mine, we wanted to take a closer look at the 360 degree drilling technique. Any idea where we can get more information on that? It says to look up trackbowling.com on the drill sheet, but neither my dad nor I were able to find further information.

We feel that the recommended drilling may be a tad too strong for me.

If anyone has any suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated.

I think my speed is 17 mph and RPM is 375-425.. can't quite remember all the numbers are on the other computer.. Have not computed my axis tilt.

Here are some links to some of my videos..

http://putfile.com/jhutch757

Thank you,

Joe

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #76 on:** October 29, 2007, 09:21:54 PM »

With what Ron said when you push the MB past the .035, and up into the .040 rang, you start to see weird motions on the ball. The reason he said at the seminar, was that you get another differential rating that comes into play and they haven been able to understand it completly yet to where they can place a layout on a ball and have it work consistantly.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

revTrex · « **Reply #77 on:** October 29, 2007, 09:36:22 PM »

Hmm...interesting...does this mean we might see a temporary slowing of the "MB Race" (between Mo and EboHamLumbiTrack)? Until they can understand it, it would seem foolish to release a ball people don't know how to drill consistently. Then again, bowling history might say not -- just look at all those people drilling up Ultra Angles for the first time however many years ago.

Mo's next release pushes the MB to .035...weird motions, eh?

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #78 on:** October 29, 2007, 09:43:27 PM »

This is why I said past .035. .035 is the buffer area on the understanding reaction. Heck if they understood the reaction on the strength I remember hearing fromd Del that with the Robo Core from the machine line, that he was able to push its MB rating up close to around .048 or something. If it was all about having the strongest MB rating he could have done it. Like I said up past .040 things start to look goofy.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #79 on:** October 29, 2007, 11:17:06 PM »

Rick is dead on about the Contour rings/planes. There was an extensive article in Ebonite's Pro Shop Insider that Rick and I were on the cover of.

Now, this is not saying that 4 inches is leverage.....3 3/8 is leverage. What this is saying is the 4 inches from PAP gives the best overall motion compared to different pin to pap distances.

These contour planes are also the reason that you get identical ball reaction when you shift the MB 180. This was discussed earlier in this thread when I said I wanted to SEE it for myself. I always want to test things...not just for my knowledge....but so I can also get that knowledge to pro shops and bowlers alike. Remember....often times I drill 3-4 for one ball so I can give an honest thought of the ball with a layout like that or simliar.

The trick layouts will be on the website available for everyone. The powers that be realized that this was a mistake and have elected to change their original thought process. Once again we (Track Bowling) are doing what the people want.

I understand the frustration that everyone voiced, and honestly I would have felt the same way. I hold no hard feelings and hope that you all feel the same way.

This technology is something folks, and it can do nothing but good things for the future of bowling equipment.

-Carl

--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
with locations in:
Youngstown Ohio (West Side Lanes)
and
Boardman Ohio (Camelot Lanes)

Track Intl- Tech Support
The Legion Lives @ www.trackbowling.com

Tag Team Member #1

TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder

jls · « **Reply #80 on:** October 30, 2007, 11:20:30 AM »

has anyone drilled a rising that started with a 3-4 or 4-5" pin, using the #1
layout? pin 1" above grip center line.
if so, any feedback?

thankyou

--------------------
jls, proud watcher of womens golf

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #81 on:** October 30, 2007, 11:41:13 AM »

Yes my rising with the suggested layout had a 5" pin. I drilled it and to get it legal all I needed was a weight hole on my midline,7/8 bit 2" deep. Brought it back to legal side to side. I had no problem with finger to thumb.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

jls · « **Reply #82 on:** October 30, 2007, 11:48:51 AM »

quote:
Yes my rising with the suggested layout had a 5" pin. I drilled it and to get it legal all I needed was a weight hole on my midline,7/8 bit 2" deep. Brought it back to legal side to side. I had no problem with finger to thumb.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

mark, i meant, how does the ball react.
thanks
--------------------
jls, proud watcher of womens golf

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #83 on:** October 30, 2007, 12:15:05 PM »

It works as said it would. It goes long and it recovers from nomans land. Last night in league with it, on the house shot. Nobody was able to send the ball out past 8 the first game. I was sending it from 22 out to 4 and still recovering to the pocket or even high flush. I for once was also rocketing the ball down the lane (around 17mph is real fast for me).
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

Djarum · « **Reply #84 on:** October 30, 2007, 12:30:44 PM »

quote:
shelley,

I have 2 Risings drilled identical....the first one I drilled in Hoptown when rick and I visited in June and the other I drilled in August. The one from Hoptown has the suggested layout of pin 1 inch up in palm, but the MB was swung 180* from where it would be on the suggested layout. The other one has the pin in the same spot but the MB where the drill sheet shows it. These 2 balls react identical to eachother. I have to admit that I was a bit skeptical, thus the reason I did this test on my own.

-Carl
--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
with locations in:
Youngstown Ohio (West Side Lanes)
and
Boardman Ohio (Camelot Lanes)

Track Intl- Tech Support
The Legion Lives @ www.trackbowling.com

Tag Team Member #1

TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder

So how is this different than say a brunswick zone? Their assyms have a stretched core, so there is MB on both sides of the ball. I would imagine if you flipped the core 180 degrees, you end up with the same drilling?

Dj
--------------------
The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.

Edited on 10/30/2007 12:48 PM

tenpinspro · « **Reply #85 on:** October 30, 2007, 01:59:55 PM »

quote:

So how is this different than say a brunswick zone? Their assyms have a stretched core, so there is MB on both sides of the ball. I would imagine if you flipped the core 180 degrees, you end up with the same drilling?

Dj

Hey Dj, remember my coffee cup analogy where the handle represents mass bias? Standard mass bias balls still look like this (so to speak).

"Now" our Rising has two handles. We can achieve symmetry or asymmetry dependent upon placement. Hope this helps some bud....

On edit: Our handles are also MUCH bigger now....
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl - Tech Support
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

Edited on 10/30/2007 2:10 PM

Djarum · « **Reply #86 on:** October 30, 2007, 02:34:25 PM »

quote:
quote:

So how is this different than say a brunswick zone? Their assyms have a stretched core, so there is MB on both sides of the ball. I would imagine if you flipped the core 180 degrees, you end up with the same drilling?

Dj

Hey Dj, remember my coffee cup analogy where the handle represents mass bias? Standard mass bias balls still look like this (so to speak).

"Now" our Rising has two handles. We can achieve symmetry or asymmetry dependent upon placement. Hope this helps some bud....

On edit: Our handles are also MUCH bigger now....
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl - Tech Support
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

Edited on 10/30/2007 2:10 PM

The only way that this would work is if the two handles were equal to each other and opposite to each other. If you flip it around, it doesn't matter. (Big B stretched zone core). If the two handles weren't equal to each other, and weren't opposite each other, then I don't see how flipping the handles around gives the same reaction.

At best I can tell from the rising core, I'm not sure how this is possible. If we take the core, and we put a face on each side of the core 90 degrees from each other, most assyms have three identicle faces and one that is different. Usually this is where the larger portion of weight is. If you look at the zone stretched core, there are two identicle faces, but what makes this ball assym is that the identicle faces are 180 degrees from each other(or on the same axis) and the other face of the core is 90 degrees from the non-identicle, or on another axis.

The rising, best I can make from the picture, has 3 unique faces. One face is duplicated 180 degrees, or on the same axis. The other two faces are different.

Dj
--------------------
The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.

tenpinspro · « **Reply #87 on:** October 30, 2007, 03:22:06 PM »

quote:
The only way that this would work is if the two handles were equal to each other and opposite to each other. If you flip it around, it doesn't matter.

Bingo!....That's how our 360 technology works. At opposite polar ends, we have the same mass bias strength...so regardless of where cg falls, we can maneuver the ball to drill accordingly for the bowler.

Now, I always appreciate science and technology (HD tv,phones,Ipods...etc) but let's please keep in mind that we are all only human beings (we all bleed red)...we all make mistakes with whatever we do at some time or another. Even if I nail a layout, will the bowler execute? I don't know....

Dj, if you have other questions or concerns, please contact Ron Hickland. He's our madman, I just know what layouts work for certain bowlers and what doesn't. I'm still just a bowler at heart....thanks for the ear guys.
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl - Tech Support
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

DP3 · « **Reply #88 on:** October 30, 2007, 03:47:24 PM »

By no means am I downing this release, but we must also realize that this is only a bowling ball, no matter what type of technology is in there. It's not a magic bullet that's going to recover from out of bounds, and there's no magic layout that is all of a sudden going to turn you into Wes Malott overnight. What is is, is a strong arcing solid made for the heavier side of medium conditions with a mass bias strength strong enough to give you a few options on fine tuning your breakpoint. The more we bicker and gripe over the smallest things such as an extra layout or two that may not even pertain to your style of play, the harder we make this simple game become.
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop

Djarum · « **Reply #89 on:** October 30, 2007, 04:32:56 PM »

quote:
quote:
The only way that this would work is if the two handles were equal to each other and opposite to each other. If you flip it around, it doesn't matter.

Bingo!....That's how our 360 technology works. At opposite polar ends, we have the same mass bias strength...so regardless of where cg falls, we can maneuver the ball to drill accordingly for the bowler.

Now, I always appreciate science and technology (HD tv,phones,Ipods...etc) but let's please keep in mind that we are all only human beings (we all bleed red)...we all make mistakes with whatever we do at some time or another. Even if I nail a layout, will the bowler execute? I don't know....

Dj, if you have other questions or concerns, please contact Ron Hickland. He's our madman, I just know what layouts work for certain bowlers and what doesn't. I'm still just a bowler at heart....thanks for the ear guys.
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl - Tech Support
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

I agree with this, but, in your coffee cup example, if you draw a line through the handles, there is another line line perpindicular to the cup on the sides without the handles. In this case, both sides are the same. But if you look at the rising core, both sides are not the same. If you run a line through the sides of the core on the rising that are the same, the other two sides are slightly different. That means that depending on where you drill the ball, depends on which side you are drilling into, which would change ball reaction.

Dj
--------------------
The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.

tenpinspro · « **Reply #90 on:** October 30, 2007, 04:35:34 PM »

quote:
By no means am I downing this release, but we must also realize that this is only a bowling ball, no matter what type of technology is in there. It's not a magic bullet that's going to recover from out of bounds, and there's no magic layout that is all of a sudden going to turn you into Wes Malott overnight. What is is, is a strong arcing solid made for the heavier side of medium conditions with a mass bias strength strong enough to give you a few options on fine tuning your breakpoint. The more we bicker and gripe over the smallest things such as an extra layout or two that may not even pertain to your style of play, the harder we make this simple game become.
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop

Hey dp, I'd normally agree with you but until you guys try this ball, it truly "is" something different. If all cores were 5 or 5ish in weight, how can 7+ not make a difference? THAT'S half of the ball weight...(on a 15)

best comment...minimum bob who I bowled against Friday..."this ball even makes it look like you have hand"....lol.....and it did, 3 practice shots...and went +58 off the gate.....
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl - Tech Support
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

Author Topic: The Rising Drill Sheet (Read 12652 times)

jhutch769

The Rising Drill Sheet

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

revTrex

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

jls

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Mark T. Trgovac

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

jls

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

Djarum

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tenpinspro

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Djarum

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tenpinspro

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DP3

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Djarum

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tenpinspro

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