Post by: spinner031 on June 04, 2007, 07:11:56 AM
I used to throw my Arsenal (and spare ball) with my thumb halfway in the ball. Because of the lack of support, I also had to grip it. I found that lately I have been blistering on the left side of my thumb (I am right handed). I tried to fully insert my thumb into the ball(s), but the thumbhole was too tight a fit, and I either couldn't get out of it, or threw it with about 4 revs down the lane. I also have a Brunswick Riot Zone Purple Pearl, which is 13 pounds and has a much bigger thumbhole. I can throw that ball without blistering.
I recently opened my Arsenal’s thumbhole so that I can now fully insert my thumb without it sticking (almost an entire personal size, actually). However, because my thumb is further into the ball, it looks like I have lost about half the revs I couldn’t spare.
I went open bowling yesterday. I threw it (the Artillery) for about a game-and-a-half before my thumb started blistering again. However, the blister was significantly smaller than it was before I opened up the thumb(slug). In the sixth or seventh frame of my second game, I switched to my Riot Zone. The Riot Zone is a ball that was not designed to handle as much oil as the Artillery, but what I found was that the Purple Pearl actually hooked MORE because I could put more revs on the ball, however, my track was lower. I don’t know why the Riot Zone out-hooked the Arsenal yesterday. The only differences between these two balls (besides the coverstocks and cores) are the bigger thumbhole on the Riot Zone, and weight difference (the Arsenal Artillery is a heavy 14). I can’t imagine I was throwing slower; the Purple Pearl is lighter than what I’m used to. Does anyone have any thoughts?
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!
Post by: spinner031 on June 04, 2007, 03:12:47 PM
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!
Post by: Weaser on June 04, 2007, 03:27:45 PM
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Gary
Proud Member of the Track Legion
Tag Team Coaching Success Story
Post by: spinner031 on June 04, 2007, 04:52:28 PM
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on June 04, 2007, 10:46:22 PM
do you happen to know the pitches that are in the thumbhole?
-Carl
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Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio
Tag Team Member #1
TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder
Post by: spinner031 on June 05, 2007, 06:11:43 AM
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on June 05, 2007, 07:37:27 AM
- The span could be too long for you.
- When you were putting the thumb in half way pitches were not important, they are now! Have a pro shop operator check them so they can tell you what they are. Odds are he/she will have to to check our hand and suggest using pitches different from what you have.
- The thumbholes may very well be the proper size now, but you are used to grabbing the ball because of only putting your thumb in halfway.
Odds are that you hooked the Riot Zone more because it is lighter in weight. That is a problem that alot of people encounter when they drop in weight with their equipment. Most do it to have more speed, but you will also be able to get more lift on the ball.
I do agree with bowling 300 900. You have to get into a pro shop and have it looked at. We can help here....but being there and actually seeing is ideal. Go to a local pro shop and have it looked at.
-Carl
PS- Are you able to post videos? If so see a video of you would be helpful.
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Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio
Tag Team Member #1
TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder
Post by: spinner031 on June 05, 2007, 02:48:16 PM
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on June 05, 2007, 04:20:50 PM
quote:
spinner,
do you happen to know the pitches that are in the thumbhole?
-Carl
Just what I was thinking. I got my Equation drilled up not too long ago, and went with a different pitch. Typically, I'm 1/2" reverse, and 1/8" left. I opted to go 1/4 reverse, and 1/8 right just as an experiment. Doesn't seem like much of a change, but it was harder to get that ball off of my hand than it is to get a Ho-Ho out of Rosie O'Donnell's hand.
It took only one game to go back to intiall settings.
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My current arsenal-www.putfile.com/trackbowler627
High game-300
High series-796
Summer THS avg-216(6 games)
PBA Exp. avg-131 (3 games) 1st time on Chameleon, and I just could not match up at all. 6/4/07-Chameleon again
Post by: spinner031 on June 05, 2007, 04:28:11 PM
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on June 05, 2007, 04:35:15 PM
This is where I got a bulk of my info about thumb pitches at.
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My current arsenal-www.putfile.com/trackbowler627
High game-300
High series-796
Summer THS avg-216(6 games)
PBA Exp. avg-131 (3 games) 1st time on Chameleon, and I just could not match up at all. 6/4/07-Chameleon again
Post by: spinner031 on June 05, 2007, 05:42:55 PM
Here's the best I have right now on a video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=oiUaD05Zwn0
- The second shot is with my White Dot, the others with my Riot Zone, and the last is my Arsenal Artillery.
I'll post another as soon as I can. I have changed a few things since I made this; I start with my ball lower, I try to keep my wrist behind the ball, and I'm working on getting out of "sling-shot" mode.
And yes, I NEED TO STOP STEPPING OUT OF MY SHOT!
It's my biggest problem and I know it, so don't say anything.
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on June 05, 2007, 06:23:30 PM
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My current arsenal-www.putfile.com/trackbowler627
High game-300
High series-796
Summer THS avg-216(6 games)
PBA Exp. avg-131 (3 games) 1st time on Chameleon, and I just could not match up at all. 6/4/07-Chameleon again
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on June 05, 2007, 11:14:00 PM
Your issue with "hook" is very simple....you allow your wrist to break back when you are coming through the ball. Keep your wrist firm and do not come around the ball do so much.
I am convinced that the pitches you have are wrong. Getting the proper fit may take awhile to get used to, but in the long run it will help your game tremendously.
I actually like your game...it is simple and you are not trying to do more with the ball than you are able to.
Go to your local pro shop and have them check the pitches in the thumb bud. The blisters shouldn't happen....it shouldn't hurt to bowl.
-Carl
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Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio
Tag Team Member #1
TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder
Post by: spinner031 on June 06, 2007, 06:24:55 AM
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!
Post by: shipper50 on June 06, 2007, 07:36:43 AM
quote:
How would he know if the pitches are "wrong?" How can he know what the correct pitches for me are?
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!
If he doesn't know or he cant tell you the correct pitches for your hand then I would suggest going to someone new.
I am in the process of changing my thumb and finger pitches after throwing the same for over 20 years. Don't be afraid to try something new.
Shipper
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on June 06, 2007, 11:32:35 AM
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Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio
Tag Team Member #1
TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder
Post by: spinner031 on June 06, 2007, 01:36:20 PM
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on June 06, 2007, 02:59:46 PM
The pro shop operator would determine pitches based on the flexibility of your thumb and the angles at which it should be able to handle inside of a bowling ball.
-Carl
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Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio
Tag Team Member #1
TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder
Post by: spinner031 on June 06, 2007, 05:27:01 PM
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on June 06, 2007, 05:44:26 PM
I've gotten my arsenal drilled and redrilled recently with thumb slugs. The pro shop will tell me it's ready, so I'll throw it. It would catch on my thumb upon release, so I took it back as often as I needed to until I felt as though it was right-not settled for what the pro shop says it should be. Not to downplay their knowledge, but they don't know how your ball feels on your hand.
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My current arsenal-www.putfile.com/trackbowler627
High game-300
High series-796
Summer THS avg-216(6 games)
PBA Exp. avg-131 (3 games) I don't know. Just wasn't ready.
Post by: spinner031 on June 06, 2007, 08:13:03 PM
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!
Post by: tenpinspro on June 07, 2007, 10:39:55 AM
quote:
Me too. And I am completely open to suggestions, but how would he know the correct pitches for me?
As I mentioned in another thread, many of us get an "opinion" from a driller, not necessarily always correct. Along with checking flexibility, I try and get a feel for what the bowler also does. How "comfortable" a ball feels in your hand (as you hold it) does not necessarily mean this is how you "throw" it in regards to release angle, clockwise or counterclockwise motion and so on.
I completely agree with Xcessive and that a driller should "not" be able to tell you what you "feel". I was a "bowler" before I was in the business and having a driller tell me "this" is what I should have didn't always apply.
I always try to "explain" in detail why I do something and then it's up to the bowler to "choose" for themselves what feels good to them or not.
How do we get "wrong" pitches? EASY...opposite laterals for the individual at the point of release or not having the proper amount of rev/forward pitches to allow the bowler to release and execute properly.
Spinner, looking at your vid I can tell you that you have a slight "clockwise" motion as you come back to release your ball. Your hand has turned inward too fast in your swing relative to the side of your body (common error) which causes you to lift back thru the ball (slight clockwise motion) to release the ball. It may because of pitches or it could be just the "feel" you've created in trying to turn the ball.
Current situation, check your lateral thumb pitches. If you have left lateral, this would be the reason that you hung up when you inserted your thumb all the way in so you learned (as a decent athlete) to use only half your thumb. Typically our hand should be making a counterclockwise motion at the point of release to ensure right to left movement of a spherical object. It's much harder to do with the incorrect pitch.
Many drillers tend to fix a "wrong" with a "wrong, they'll just simply open up your thumbhole if you complain about hanging up. Now you've got a huge thumbhole that causes you to drop the ball..sounds like your situation to some degree. Hope this helps explain some...
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Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
See profile for Track Ball videos
*El Presidente of the Track Legion
Edited on 6/7/2007 10:39 AM
Post by: spinner031 on June 07, 2007, 03:48:24 PM
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on June 07, 2007, 03:56:03 PM
It is simple bud......when the ball is going forward you view it as a clock. You currently get through the ball counter clockwise....which is good. You just allow your wrist to break and keep your thumb in the ball too long.
Carl
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Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio
Tag Team Member #1
TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder
Post by: tenpinspro on June 07, 2007, 04:03:42 PM
quote:
I don't really understand what you mean by a "clockwise and a "counterclockwise" motion at my point of release.
Picture a clock pasted to the wall/masking unit right in front of you at the end of a lane. From holding your hand flat (palm facing the ceiling), rotate it left (counterclockwise) or pretend to shake somebody's hand. This is a "counterclockwise" motion.
Now picture you're holding a suitcase or gym bag. Your palm should be facing inward towards your leg, now rotate your palm "outward" to where your palm finishes facing the ceiling. This would be considered a "clockwise" position. Full rollers do this along with back-up ball bowlers which is a much stronger movement of the wrist turning outward (ball moves left to right).
If you look at your hand position in your vid, your hand is already turned "inward" before the point of release so to "feel" finger lift, you rotate slightly back (clockwise) which is why you don't have a lot of right to left motion with the ball. Make sense bud? If not pm me cause this can turn into a novel....
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Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
See profile for Track Ball videos
*El Presidente of the Track Legion
Post by: spinner031 on June 07, 2007, 07:36:44 PM
Every time I go now I feel so disappointed. I can't throw my Arsenal or else I blister within two games. I don't throw my spare ball or I'll rip up just as fast. The only chance I have is with my Riot Zone, but even when I use that for three games, my skin cracks. I have a really, big, problem.
Here's my theory:
My Arsenal was drilled for, like just about everyone else, my entire thumb to be in the ball. I can't explain how, but I managed to get into a bad habit of throwing the ball with only half of my thumb in it. This caused my thumb's knuckle to swell on both sides, but mostly on the left side (when looking at the back of the hand). Now I am trying to revolutionize my bad style and throw the ball like I should, but because my thumb is swollen, I can't operate the ball normally.
Imagine, if you will, my thumb on its side. The swollen left side of my knuckle would form a parabola (bear with me). In the downswing, all that pressure is forced onto the highest point of the parabola, or, the highest point of swelling. This is where there is significant blistering and skin breaking.
Now, how do I remedy this?
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!
Post by: spinner031 on June 08, 2007, 06:15:22 AM
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!
Post by: spinner031 on June 08, 2007, 05:54:59 PM
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!
Post by: spinner031 on June 12, 2007, 06:34:51 PM
quote:
you want the thumb to be nice and snug
I know, I know, I know exactly what you are saying and I agree with you 100%. THe problem is that my thumb is wider than thick, so the oval will fit snugly all the way around and not on the sides. This way, I don't have to grip it. Don't think I didn't know that, because I have no doubts about what you are saying.
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!
Post by: spinner031 on June 12, 2007, 06:35:14 PM
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!