Author Topic: Understanding Differential... (Read 2527 times)

tenpinspro · « **on:** March 04, 2007, 09:10:27 PM »

Hey Guys, another tip coming from Tag Team Coaching to help educate our fellow bowler and better understand what we "want" to look for in ball reaction. I wrote a post a while back in regards to RG's and how it affects ball motion (If someone were to be so kind to find and bump that post back up to run with this one). This is the other crucial piece in core design that dictates ball motion/reaction.

Differential: Differential is one of the main factors that help dictate the amount of flare that a ball can have, flare dictates the amount of movement of the core in a ball which (in English) helps dictates (possible) hook. The more flare we have, the more hook we (can) have. Same goes opposite, the less flare we have, the less hook we (can)have. Here's the scale for this one...(courtesy again of Danny Speranza)

Differential Estimated track flare*
.000-.009 O" Generally, the more the ball flares, the sooner the ball will want to hook, or grab the lane.

.010-.019 0 to 1-1/2"
.020-.029 2 to 3"
.030-.039 3 to 4-1/2"
.040-.049 4 to 5-1/2"
.050-.059 5 to 6-1/2"
.060-.069 6 to 8"
.070-.080 7 to 10"

Looking at this chart, we can (generically) equate the numbers (listed in differential) into inches of flare with the higher number being up to .5+ that number. For example, .040-.049 (generically) translates into approximately 4 to 5.5 inches of flare to the high end. Without having to be a physicist, we can get a guesstimate about any ball we look at. All our ball talkers (signs) that we see at our local pro shop usually have this information. I'm just trying to help translate the info to plain English.

With this being said, typically on drier lanes, we'd want less flare which means that we would want to look for a piece with a lower differential. On a generic average, plastic balls are about .010. For more hook, we'd probably want a ball with a higher differential which would offer us more overall hook potential. The two highest balls I know of in differential (please add more if I missed any) are the Super Carbide Bomb and the SD-73. However guys, please remember that "coverstock" plays a huge role in friction (just like our snow tires/chains) that also dictate movement.

Any questions, please feel free to ask and Tag Team Coaching will get back to you, thanks!

* Will vary depending on bowlers' style.
** will vary depending on cover stock

--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

Edited on 3/20/2007 4:37 PM

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #1 on:** March 05, 2007, 05:22:41 AM »

Nice and insightful post, Rick!

I'd just want to add that the RG diff. numbers primarly show the flare potential of a ball. With the drilling and the relative pin position towards the PAP, the driller defines how much of this potential is finally exploited (what means you can have a high flare potential ball, but drill it "dead" so that it will effectively show little flare).

But, as Rick mentions, too, the match of the core with the coverstock, surface prep and lane condition will also play a considerable role in ball choice and setup, so fetching a big differentoal ball and drilling it leverage will not necessarly produce the most hook on the lane or even an effective finish in the pins.

To quote a local expert: the ball that just gets into forward roll when it enters the pins has the most power to deliver. And to achieve this certain moment is the bowler's search for the holy grail.

Once more, a great post, Rick!
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
"Put some make-up on your face - Make this world a better place!"
Kahimi Karie, 'Good morning world'

Edited on 3/5/2007 6:19 AM

tenpinspro · « **Reply #2 on:** March 05, 2007, 05:30:17 AM »

quote:
To quote a local expert: the ball that just gets into forward roll when it enters the pins has the most power to deliver. And to achieve this certain moment is the bowler's search for the holy grail.

Thanks Dizz for the words and your input. I tried to keep this as simple as possible but you are 8000% correct (sorry, watching too much Maury Povich...

) We can drill balls to control flare which again controls overall movement.

I like Earl Anthony's definition of impact, he called it "getting the ball to hit at its "exploding" point"

Just trying to help bud....
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

Edited on 3/5/2007 6:29 AM

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #3 on:** March 06, 2007, 12:09:32 AM »

bump
--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio

Tag Team Member #1

TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder

FBM357 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 13, 2007, 05:33:04 PM »

and I started to think you were referring to that in my Jeep ..

Good stuff!!
--------------------
Proud member of the Track Revolution - EMERITUS & Hitman

"Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open!"

Leftyhi-trak · « **Reply #5 on:** March 13, 2007, 07:42:03 PM »

Rick,

Question related to flare. What in diff or flare determines amount of ring seperation? How pertinent is seperation to performance? I ask this because we have started seeing a few new releases that are fairly strong pieces but look quite weak or even reacting although getting about 6-8" flare but huge seperation between rings (5/8"). Surface relavent to other pieces that seem to move in a normal manor for hook shape. Any insite is appreciated.

laufaye · « **Reply #6 on:** March 13, 2007, 08:30:04 PM »

Rick, thanks for this great topic, lets discuss.

First I like to verify the RG Diff numbers basically is the difference between the max RG and the min RG, correct? pointing this out just to let the others know exactly where the numbers are coming from.

Second, I am still not clear about how to come up the numbers on the MB diff, maybe you can share some info with us.

Now get back to RG diff, lets just say we have a ball with 0.05 RG diff, so in theory if we drill it leverage, it should have 5" or so flare, now if we put pin on PAP, we would have minimum flare say with 1 1/2, and if we put pin 6 3/4 from PAP again we should have let say less than 1 1/2 flare.

Question, if we put the pin 1 11/16 away from the PAP do we have have of the max flare? 2 1/2" flare? or actually the ratio its not prorator?

--------------------
Laufaye

1MechEng · « **Reply #7 on:** March 13, 2007, 08:48:14 PM »

Good post, Rick!

Couple of things:
1.) Should this be posted in a different section so that more people can see it?
2.) Could this be added to the Ballreviews unofficial FAQ post so that all of the questions like this that are asked over and over could be referred to a "digest" of information that is contained in one place?

Thanks!

--------------------
======================
Dan
======================
Engineering * Bowling = a fun and practical application of rotational kinematics.

laufaye · « **Reply #8 on:** March 16, 2007, 02:45:32 PM »

Take a look at this, good article.

http://www.bowlingdigital.com/bowling/node/14131/1
--------------------
Laufaye

laufaye · « **Reply #9 on:** March 16, 2007, 02:53:43 PM »

quote:
I would change one thing.

quote:
Differential: Differential dictates the amount of flare that a ball can have

Differential is ONE of the dictating factors.
--------------------
Rev it! Hook it! Rip it! Pipe it! Stroke it! Be a player of the game

What about Differential can only dictate flare potential, and flare potential can only induce hook potential with the right amount of friction.
--------------------
Laufaye

tenpinspro · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2007, 04:05:46 PM »

quote:
Rick,

Question related to flare. What in diff or flare determines amount of ring separation? How pertinent is separation to performance? Surface relevant to other pieces that seem to move in a normal manor for hook shape. Any insite is appreciated.

I'd say that the flare rings on a ball can vary due to a few different factors. A bowler's style/release (axis rotation, tilt..etc), surface friction and core strength/differential of the ball. Typically (generally speaking), a ball with a higher differential will want to flare faster so the rings "can" have a larger separation between them.

Performance? It depends on the bowler's needs/wants in reaction. It does not necessarily translate into a good or bad thing, just what the bowler needs to match up with for that particular condition.

quote:
I ask this because we have started seeing a few new releases that are fairly strong pieces but look quite weak or even reacting although getting about 6-8" flare but huge separation between rings (5/8").

Overall reaction cannot be based on flare alone. While flare does show core movement, overall "hook" is controlled from the same variables mentioned above (axis rotation, tilt, surface friction, speed to rev ratio..etc). Hope this helps some Lefty....
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

Edited on 3/20/2007 4:05 PM

azus · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2007, 04:07:49 PM »

Those numbers is only accurate if you drill the ball 3 3/8 pin-pap right?
--------------------
I like my coffee black, just like my metal.
What would Chuck Norris do?
(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(')
Cute Bunny! copy bunny into sig to help him achieve world domination

tenpinspro · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2007, 04:21:39 PM »

quote:
First I like to verify the RG Diff numbers basically is the difference between the max RG and the min RG, correct? pointing this out just to let the others know exactly where the numbers are coming from.

Yes that's one way to define it. I also learned it as the vertical rg less the horizontal rg which is why when we hit the side of the core (6 3/4 away), we are removing more weight from the horizontal rg which increases the overall differential.

quote:
Second, I am still not clear about how to come up the numbers on the MB diff, maybe you can share some info with us.

Here's a great answer for you directly from Nick Siefers who actually wrote that article you found.

quote:
The intermediate diff is calculated by subtracting the middle RG from the high RG of the BALL. The middle RG axis is easily found on a ball by drawing an arc 6 3/4''from the pin(low RG Axis) and intersect it with another arc drawn 6 3/4'' from the mass bias marking(high RG axis). The point at which
these arc's come together is the middle RG axis.

quote:
Question, if we put the pin 1 11/16 away from the PAP do we have have of the max flare? 2 1/2" flare? or actually the ratio its not prorator?

In general thinking, I'd agree with you but again this will vary based upon the bowler's style (axis rotation, tilt..etc) along with the surface friction that is created. Hope this helps some laufaye, now my brain hurts...lol
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

tenpinspro · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2007, 04:27:35 PM »

quote:
Good post, Rick!

Couple of things:
1.) Should this be posted in a different section so that more people can see it?
2.) Could this be added to the Ballreviews unofficial FAQ post so that all of the questions like this that are asked over and over could be referred to a "digest" of information that is contained in one place?

Thanks!

--------------------
======================
Dan

You're probably right Dan but this is where Tag Team Coaching originated and where loyal Track fans have learned to come for information.

I believe Re-evolution takes what he deems valuable or worthwhile reading and places it in that file.
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

tenpinspro · « **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2007, 04:30:39 PM »

quote:
I would change one thing.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Differential: Differential dictates the amount of flare that a ball can have
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Differential is ONE of the dictating factors.

Thank you for catching that Lane1, I "sit" corrected...will edit main topic.
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

Author Topic: Understanding Differential... (Read 2527 times)

tenpinspro

Understanding Differential...

dizzyfugu

Re: Understanding Differential...

tenpinspro

Re: Understanding Differential...

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: Understanding Differential...

FBM357

Re: Understanding Differential...

Leftyhi-trak

Re: Understanding Differential...

laufaye

Re: Understanding Differential...

1MechEng

Re: Understanding Differential...

laufaye

Re: Understanding Differential...

laufaye

Re: Understanding Differential...

tenpinspro

Re: Understanding Differential...

azus

Re: Understanding Differential...

tenpinspro

Re: Understanding Differential...

tenpinspro

Re: Understanding Differential...

tenpinspro

Re: Understanding Differential...